The Nintendo canon - All series in same universe!

[Koopalmier]

Jul 30, 2010 16:30:00 GMT -5 EpicGyllynn said:

kingkoopa
No! Dr. Mario and Mario are one in the same! End of Story!

Or Dr. Mario doesn't exist at all. <_>

[EpicGyllynn]

Well I have no Evidence that he Exist, but you have no Evidence that contradicts his Existence! Therefore I must conclude that he IS Mario, and that his games ARE Canon! And as you have no Evidence that contradicts my Theory, I must assume that I'm right!

[Koopalmier]

- The Dr. Mario series says there's a Mushroom Kingdom Hospital. In M&L3 the only hospital-ish place in the kingdom is the Toadley Clinic, where Mario clearly doesn't work.
- In the Dr. Mario series, the cold epidemy was apparently very serious (for the MK at least). In M&L3 the Blorbs epidemy is the first time something that serious happens to the MK, and Mario doesn't really participate to the researches.
- No mention of any other work than plumbing in Mario games (not counting the first Donkey Kong).

[EpicGyllynn]

- Where does it Mention that there is a Mushroom Kingdom Hospital?

- Where is that Stated?

- His SSBB Trophy states that he has the Intelligence of a Physician! Heres the Quote:

"A familiar overall-clad figure who is Nintendo's flagship character. His courage and jumping ability have seen him through countless adventures. He's a multitalented plumber with the knowledge of a physician, a top-notch golfer, and a veteran tennis umpire. I his jumping prowess a boon from his girder-climbing days?"

And here's the Link:
supersmashbros.ign.com/wiki/List_of_Trophies

[Koopalmier]

Jul 30, 2010 18:38:41 GMT -5 EpicGyllynn said:

- Where does it Mention that there is a Mushroom Kingdom Hospital?

Quoting the game's manual (NES version):
MY NAME IS DR. MARIO

Hi everybody! I'm Mario. How's it going? Over the last few years, I've been involved
in some wild adventures. Now, believe it or not, I work in the virus research
lab at the Mushroom Kingdom Hospital. Today I'm about to begin my research as
usual.

"Dr. Mario, something terrible has happened !"

"What's wrong, nurse Toadstool?"

"One of the experiments has gone out of control.
The viruses are spreading quickly !"

"Oh no! We've got to do something! I have just developed a new vitamin
that should be able to take care of it. I sure hope this stuff works !"

- Where is that Stated?
Nowhere, I think I'm delirious. It's quite late here (2 a.m.). Still, the situation looks pretty serious.

- His SSBB Trophy states that he has the Intelligence of a Physician! Heres the Quote:

"A familiar overall-clad figure who is Nintendo's flagship character. His courage and jumping ability have seen him through countless adventures. He's a multitalented plumber with the knowledge of a physician, a top-notch golfer, and a veteran tennis umpire. I his jumping prowess a boon from his girder-climbing days?"

And here's the Link:
supersmashbros.ign.com/wiki/List_of_Trophies

I know he has the intelligence of a physician, but that doesn't mean he can suddently show up and save the world from something he doesn't know anything about nor did fought before. SSBM's not a very good source anyway, the trophies section looks like it was made by a random fan. SSBB is a better source.

[EpicGyllynn]

As previously stated, the Manuals Canonicity is arguable, and as such is Irrelevant!

[Koopalmier]

How can the manual be non-canon if they are sold with the game ?

I agree the websites are hardly canon though.

[kingkoopa]

The gaming manuals were made by Nintendo and sometimes they even tell more to the story than the game does. (Oh how I miss the manuals that told you more than how to start the game and the controls)

[EpicGyllynn]

But, you see, I don't think it's good to base theories off of anything outside of the Games themselves(Unless the Discussion is about other Media)! Although, going by your Logic, the SMB Manual states that Coins, Piranha Plants, Brick Blocks, Super Mushrooms & Fire Flowers are Toads who have been Transformed by Bowsers' Black Magic! Though we can clearly assume, based on In-game Evidence, that Coins are Currency(Not Toads), Piranha Plants are a Race of Plants(Not Toads), Brick Blocks are Blocks made out of Bricks(Not Toads), Super Mushrooms are Size-altering Mushrooms(Not Toads), and Fire Flowers are Plants that grant the user Fire-manipulation(Not Toads)! Okay, so the Manual has been proven wrong, does that mean SMB isn't Canon? No! Of course Not! So, the Dr. Mario Manual states there is a Mushroom Kingdom Hospital and that Mario works there, though In-game Evidence contradicts this! Does that mean that Dr. Mario is Non-canon? No! You See?

[Koopalmier]

I see you're wrong. *evil laugh*

The SMB manual states Toads have been transformed into normal, everyday things such as brick blocks, horseplants and other odd objects (why do you think the hills had eyes ? They were transformed Toads ! And when Mario frees a "brick block"ed Toads, said Toad would reward him with a power-up). You can't give an argument when you can't really remember it. ^^;

[EpicGyllynn]

Or it was just an In-game thing that Nintendo later Dropped! Why do you think the Hills and Clouds continued to have eyes until the 3D games? Also, here id the Quote:

Once upon a time, the peaceful Mushroom Kingdom was invaded by the Koopa, a
tribe of turtles famous for their dark magic. These terrible terrapins
transformed the peace-loving Mushroom People into stones, bricks, and
ironically, mushrooms, then set their own evil king on the throne. In the wake
of the ghastly coup d'etat, the beautiful Mushroom Kingdom fell into ruin and
disrepair.

It is said that only the daughter of the Mushroom King, Princess Toadstool, can
break the evil spell and return the inhabitants of the Mushroom Kingdom to their
normal selves.

So as you can see, the Super Mushrooms where Toads! Here is another Quote:



One day the kingdom of the peaceful mushroom people was invaded by the
Koopa, a tribe of turtles famous for their black magic. The quiet, peace-loving
Mushroom People were turned into mere stones, bricks and even field horse-
hair plants, and the Mushroom Kingdom fell into ruin.

The only one who can undo the magic spell on the Mushroom People and
returntthem to their normal selves is the Princess Toadstool, the daughter of
the Mushroom King. Unfortunately, she is presently in the hands of the great
Koopa turtle king.

Mario, the hero of this story (maybe) hears about the Mushroom People's
plight and sets out on a quest to free the Mushroom Princess from the evil
Koopa and restore the fallen kingdom of the Mushroom People.
You are Mario! It's up to you to save the Mushroom People from the black
magic of the Koopa!


The Field Horse-Hair Plants is obviously alluding to Fire Flowers! And from both these quotes you see they where Transformed into Brick Blocks!

[Koopalmier]

... You... You do know what an horse-hair plant is, right ? Those aren't like Fire Flowers at all.

And forgetting the original SMB manual (or, more precisely, only focusing on the updated version - SMBDX's manual, your second quote), they were turned into stones (the "X" blocks you tend to see, mainly before flagpoles), bricks (all the brick blocks that contained power-ups, and that were mixed with "natural" blocks, but when a Toad Block is destroyed the Toad doesn't die - he actually rewards Mario with a power-up), and horse-hair plants (that people keep confusing with horsehair mushrooms - damnit ! Horse-hair plants are... well, there's one in PM2, on the path to Peatalburg, the little tree-ish things you see in SMB are horse-hair plants, thus transformed Toads).

[Meta Black Yoshi]

That blue/white PM plant/rock thing you're talking about is called a candypole (I think that's what you were talking about). It rewards you with a horsetail if you hit it. The horsetail is a common name for the reproductive part of some plants from the phyla pteritophyta.

So why can't the manuals and the games both be considered canon.
I don't see what the contradiction is. >.>

[EpicGyllynn]

I think Dr. Mario is Canon, and he sais that it's not based on the Manualstatiing that there is a Mushroom Kingdom Hospital that Mario doesn't work for! What do you say, Dr. Mario, Canon or not?

[Koopalmier]

@mby : Basically, I think Dr. Mario isn't canon because... Well, just search in the topic, I'm too lazy to say it again.

[kingkoopa]

But basing that on the fact that there is only one medical clinic in BIS, that one clinic could have been the Mushroom Kingdom Hospital. I don't know why they did it but when they built the shopping mall in toad town, they re-designed the hospital to make it a small clinic. Before, when clinic was a hospital, Dr. Mario worked there and trained Dr. Toadly. OR Dr. Mario games take place after BIS

[Le Mario Bro]

I'd go with the first one. I'm not gonna go into anything that has to do with timelines and the like. Too many games to keep track of.

[EpicGyllynn]

I don't think he trained Toadsly, but it's possible that he temporarily worked with Doctors at the Mushroom Kingdom Hospitial to combat the Virus. But I still think that the Manuals Canonicity is questionable!

[kingkoopa]

Considering that the manual is the only story of Dr. Mario games (besides Dr. Mario 64) what would be canon if that wasn't canon

[Koopalmier]

So the kingdom is in crisis, there's a serious disease roaming around, and they'd make the kingdom's only hospital smaller ? I know it's the Mario series, and everyone's crazy (like making a shopping district during one of the kingdom's most serious problems), but I doubt they'd downgrade the hospital to a clinic at the only time when they shouldn't do that. Plus the instruction mnual of Dr. Mario un-directly says Mario is now definitely a doctor and he's been working in the Hospital for some times now (and the epidemy he had to cure didn't happened during or before he was a doctor). So either the Dr. Mario series is A) Happening after Mario's last adventure (unlikely, as the manual doesn't say Mario's been on a countless number of adventures but now retired - it's as if after SMB3 he became a doctor) or B) Not canon. Or C) After SMB3 the timeline splits: on a side Mario becomes a doctor, on another he continues his adventures.