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Post by Artemendo on Jan 9, 2011 15:49:23 GMT -5
This is horrible! Paper Mario has always been about innovation, and this looks so generic that by now I am pretty certain it is a "reimagining" of Paper Mario 1 in the same way NSMBW is one of NSMB - i.e. no new environments save that Bob-Omb mountain and the story is basically the same. This is the downfall of Paper Mario. If not even Intelligent Systems can use the full amount of their creativity, what can we expect from mainstream Mario games? Seriously, the land even looks inspired by NSMBW as a cruel way of taunting everybody who expected anything truly new.
Oh, oh, and I bet the lack of partners is final. Look, he obviously was in Chapter 5 or wherever that volcano is, and still had no partners! Also, did you see the amount of damage he did to the Goomba? Face it, it's probably be a solo adventure. Which makes for an extremely tiny amount of story, just like Miyamoto wants from Mario games.
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Post by thedude3445 on Jan 9, 2011 16:01:31 GMT -5
Or maybe it's a demo trailer and they aren't going to reveal the partners yet.
And, though it pains me to mention this possibility, but it could also still be in the early stages of development...ugh I hope that's not true.
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Post by Koopalmier on Jan 9, 2011 16:05:23 GMT -5
This is horrible! Paper Mario has always been about innovation, and this looks so generic that by now I am pretty certain it is a "reimagining" of Paper Mario 1 in the same way NSMBW is one of NSMB - i.e. no new environments save that Bob-Omb mountain and the story is basically the same. Except we don't know anything about the story. NSMBW made a definitive Mario continuity by making the decision that the MK would look like that. Forgive Intelligent Systems for following it... Higher damages and HP = More complicated battle system. That doesn't mean "no partner". And didn't we already see a partner ? Don't we already know that they just don't come out of Mario's pocket outside of battle ? And this isn't just a Mario game. It's a Mario RPG. If Mario & Luigi 3 could have a plot, this game will have one. Don't be so pessimistic. |
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Post by Indigo on Jan 9, 2011 16:21:19 GMT -5
Something tells me Arte was being sarcastic. ;p
And thedude, I wouldn't get my hopes up on the release date just yet. My prediction is that the game will be released sometime during the fall at best. It'll be hard to wait that long, I know. D: But then again, I could be totally wrong. I'm praying for at least a summer release, but only time can tell.
As for the higher damage in battles... I'd attribute that to some sort of sticker-related tomfoolery. As in, Mario had on a sticker that raises the power of the first jump, for instance. Or it could just be a badge effect. My guess for that Spiny Goomba helmet sticker we saw is that it harms any foe who tries to attack Mario from the air.
The more I think about it, the more excited I get about the sticker gameplay. The original Paper Mario formula was interactive and engaging enough with its customizable badges, action commands, and audience system (in PM2), but this new sticker element seems like it's going to make battling incredibly versatile.
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Post by thedude3445 on Jan 9, 2011 16:24:32 GMT -5
Except we know nothing about it except that they're going to be used in the overworld and in battle.
Ugh what if they replace partners with sticker "summons"? >_<
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Post by Artemendo on Jan 9, 2011 16:37:25 GMT -5
Ugh what if they replace partners with sticker "summons"? >_< And that, my friends, explains the generic Chomp and the lack of partners. Say bye to partners having an original design, lines, and story. Sadly, I have not been sarcastic, I legitimately fear this is going to be about 90% less story-oriented than the other Paper Mario games, because 1. no partners, or generic partners, means lack of partner-driven quests 2. Mario never talks 3. enemies seems to be the Koopa Troop - story most likely "Bowser kidnapped Peach" 4. environments so generic I cannot conceive of an environment-driven story except maybe the Bob-Omb mountain In the Paper Mario 2 and SPM trailers, you could tell the depths of the story and originality from the first couple seconds, here, everything indicated blandness. You can't tell me I'm factually incorrect about this. |
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Post by Indigo on Jan 9, 2011 17:00:59 GMT -5
I trust Intelligent Systems to make a good storyline and colorful cast of characters. Miyamoto is never involved with the PM games, so you can rest easy on that aspect, anyway. He won't be there to oversee the storytellers like he unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on one's view) did with SMG2.
And we haven't even seen an appropriate trailer yet. I heard that we're getting new trailers on 3DS games on the 19th, including one on Paper Mario; maybe then we'll get the real scoop on what's going on. I can almost guarantee you that the story and dialogue will remain as fresh and witty as they have been in the past; after all, that is arguably the defining aspect of the Paper Mario games. They wouldn't change that. And partners? They're probably not designed yet, or maybe the developers want to keep most of them a secret.
So keep your chins up. Even if I'm totally wrong about everything I've said (which is, mind you, entirely possible), I'm sure that the game, with whatever they choose to do with it, will turn out to be just as fun as its predecessors, if not more so.
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Post by kingkoopa on Jan 9, 2011 21:44:21 GMT -5
Did I just see Ice Bros? And possibly a new Toad Town? And para bob-ombs? WOOT. *notices that Nintendo wasn't willing to reveal any partners* RAAAAAAAAAAGGGGEE
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Post by Vent on Jan 9, 2011 22:11:57 GMT -5
That video looked like a tech demo to me. There's still a lot of room for change between now and later.
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Post by Koopalmier on Jan 10, 2011 0:33:03 GMT -5
Ugh what if they replace partners with sticker "summons"? >_< And that, my friends, explains the generic Chomp and the lack of partners. Say bye to partners having an original design, lines, and story. Sadly, I have not been sarcastic, I legitimately fear this is going to be about 90% less story-oriented than the other Paper Mario games, because 1. no partners, or generic partners, means lack of partner-driven quests 2. Mario never talks 3. enemies seems to be the Koopa Troop - story most likely "Bowser kidnapped Peach" 4. environments so generic I cannot conceive of an environment-driven story except maybe the Bob-Omb mountain In the Paper Mario 2 and SPM trailers, you could tell the depths of the story and originality from the first couple seconds, here, everything indicated blandness. You can't tell me I'm factually incorrect about this. Well... I already thought about this, but I decided to think I was wrong again... But now, I start agreeing with you. We don't even have a trailer yet, meaning we can't really say anything yet (as the game isn't completed enough for something better than a looped demo) but the fact every enemy is part of the Koopa troop is disturbing. Maybe that the army gets brainwashed without getting any physical change (like in M&L3) but that's not likely... And Miyamoto seems to make more references to the spin-offes recently (more precisely, since he did that picture with him and all Wii Mario games on a table). Maybe that he played Super Paper Mario and was so shocked at the amount of story that he ordered Intelligent Systems to reduce the story to "Bowser kidnaps Peach" for the next game ? |
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Post by cheat-master30 on Jan 10, 2011 12:07:26 GMT -5
Who cares if the Koopa Troop are the villains? Bowser needs a return to form villain wise in the RPGs, and by itself that's not a bad thing.
In all, I think the current pictures aren't really showing much of the game, and I honestly think the partners just haven't been seen yet. I mean, even the partner known so far hasn't appeared in the latest pictures... so maybe the just appear in battle and cut scenes like the characters in Super Mario RPG?
There's nothing wrong with the geography either. Super Paper Mario was probably a bit too weird, and remember, many RPGs use generic areas... the first game did, Thousand Year Door did to a degree with the tropical island, snow area and first chapter, and the Mario and Luigi series uses standard themes with simply a few interesting twists to them. It's not like we know the snow or volcano areas don't say... have an interesting boss or role in the story.
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Post by PDoogan on Jan 10, 2011 12:20:46 GMT -5
Come on guy's, it's a preview movie! There isn't even a playable demo yet. The release is at least a year and a half away. I'm sure they'll add everything else by then.
In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if any of the areas shown aren't even included in the final release.
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Post by Le Mario Bro on Jan 10, 2011 15:18:42 GMT -5
No Bob-Omb Ground zero?! D:<
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Post by yellowyoshi on Jan 10, 2011 19:20:39 GMT -5
I don't mind the generic levels too much, as long as the plot within the chapter is engaging.
Anyways, here is my wish-list for this game:
- A nice story, if it can't match PMTTYD or SPM, then try to be lighthearted and fun like PM64, but don't ignore it completely.
- More challenge in places outside of the inevitable pit of 100 trials.
- Return Kolorado and Jr. Troopa.
- Make it around PMTTYD's length or longer.
- Have Luigi tell some humorous tale, like his diary in PM64 or his adventures in PMTTYD.
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Post by kingkoopa on Jan 10, 2011 21:21:44 GMT -5
I'm not worried about the story. And what is with all this talk that sounds like "Miyamoto ruins everything he touches." While I admit that he hates any and all plot in a Mario game, Miyamoto has nothing to do with this game and therefore, we have nothing to worry about. If Bowser is the main villain of this game, that doesn't really make this an unoriginal game. I mean there are so many aspects to Bowser that haven't been explained story-wise. And maybe Bowser is the main villain, but didn't kidnap the princess. Imagine what Bowser could do if he didn't kidnap the Princess. The possibilities are endless really.
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Post by Artemendo on Jan 11, 2011 7:19:35 GMT -5
He doesn't ruin anything, but if he was in charge of every Mario game, Mariology would have no reason to exist, as his own vision of Mario is just a vehicle for new gameplay mechanics. In a sense, Miyamoto is counteracting everything this forum stands for.
Not quite. Intelligent Systems is Japan-based, he could have gone there and talked them into following his guidelines. Since this is not a license, but a second party, they are obliged to follow everything he says lest they want to be fired from Nintendo.
True. True. But that won't happen. I mean, just look at that game. No matter whether some things still get changed, fact is that the game is going to be released this summer or fall, and it's not like it will be completely reworked. There WILL be all, or almost all, of those bland and boring areas. If you ask me, I say anyone who expects anything more than "Paper Mario 1 with 3D effects" is going to be disappointed.
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Post by Koopalmier on Jan 11, 2011 10:10:15 GMT -5
Paper Mario 1 with 3D effects is far than enough for me. Why ? We can explore the Mushroom Kingdom again ! ...in glorious 3D. Explorating the area is part of Mariology for me.
And if this game has barely any plot - and if we learn it's Miyamoto's fault - Nintendo will receive tons of angry mail, and will realize plot is a major element of Mario RPGs. And Earth will start rotating again, like a Power Star (or Shine Sprite) !
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Post by cheat-master30 on Jan 11, 2011 15:28:07 GMT -5
He doesn't ruin anything, but if he was in charge of every Mario game, Mariology would have no reason to exist, as his own vision of Mario is just a vehicle for new gameplay mechanics. In a sense, Miyamoto is counteracting everything this forum stands for. Not quite. Intelligent Systems is Japan-based, he could have gone there and talked them into following his guidelines. Since this is not a license, but a second party, they are obliged to follow everything he says lest they want to be fired from Nintendo. True. True. But that won't happen. I mean, just look at that game. No matter whether some things still get changed, fact is that the game is going to be released this summer or fall, and it's not like it will be completely reworked. There WILL be all, or almost all, of those bland and boring areas. If you ask me, I say anyone who expects anything more than "Paper Mario 1 with 3D effects" is going to be disappointed. Don't panic! Seriously. Mario theorising could exist even without a story in any depth, we've got an interesting fictional universe to talk about, it's got all kinds of differences in physics and society to the real world and there's plenty enough to talk about on Waluigious. Heck, most articles on Waluigious would be no different if Paper Mario were to cease to exist entirely. Besides gameplay > story. Also, who gave you the right to decide what are bland and boring areas, that's my job! Seriously though, why are we prejudging a game based on maybe ten screenshots? Besides, I'd have thought people would have thought the return of the Frog Suit was more important than some imaginary issue with world design/content. Note: Nintendo owns Intelligent System. They ain't a second party, they're internally part of Nintendo, like Retro Studios. A second party is not part of the main organisation, like Rare back in the old days, but works exclusively for a certain company or organisation. Intelligent Systems is technically an internal development team, they couldn't argue back if they tried, nor leave Nintendo. What's wrong with Paper Mario 1 anyway? I liked the second game more, but heck, it's better to take inspiration for an actual RPG in the series from... you know, an actual RPG, and not Super Paper Mario. If it's just a hate of remakes, keep in mind that they're not going to be all the games on the 3DS, and that you know, this is 99% likely not a remake. Why? Well, no Wigglers, no Whomps and no Chain Chomp partner were in the Nintendo 64. There was no stickers then. No Frog Suit equivalent. The areas were completely different. Maybe it's a bit of a mission pack sequel like Galaxy 2 was to the first or something, but it's new enough to be it's own game. Oh, and don't go saying they're gonna rush it out by summer, the game doesn't even a release date yet, and I'm 98% sure it's not a launch game. Seriously Artemendo... *shakes head*. Bad of use of reasoning, many rushed to conclusions and no real evidence to back them up. I expected better! |
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Post by Artemendo on Jan 11, 2011 16:28:33 GMT -5
Last time I didn't panic was with SMG2, and I was extremely disappointed. Mario is not supposed to be "very good", or "one of the best" platformers, it's supposed to be the best! World class! Number one! Super Mario Galaxy 2 was a content-less, random-replay-mission kludge that shames the Mario name. I think I reserve the right to panic, I don't want more Mario sub-series going down that path.
Thank you, I did get that wrong, but my point that they could not argue against Miyamoto still stands.
Nothing. But after Paper Mario 2 and SPM, coming out with a game with seemingly the same story and seemingly the same environments and seemingly no new enemies is simply lazy. Really, the series up until now was like an ascent into the fantastic, this looks like a descent into the mundane. So much potential for originality squandered. If I want "generic Mushroom Kingdom grasslands", I'll play the 150 other games that have that environment. From Paper Mario I expected a jungle incased in amber, or a fortress made of microchips, or something equally original.
I said summer or fall, and it's pretty clear it's going to come out this year because it's the only big Mario thing they announced. I am willing to also suggest Christmas 2011, at the latest.
Look. My evidence is... look at the trailers for PM2 or SPM. Tell me they don't show dozens of original stuff WITHOUT EVEN TRYING. All you people who are trying to be optimistic are forgetting that if the makers had anything original to show, they would already have. The game is this bland throughout, you can't claim they picked the worst parts to show to us, this is absurd, you know it. They either showed us the best parts, in which case we're doomed, or just random parts, in which case this game looks middling.
Oh, and, I would love to be wrong on this. I would really love to.
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Post by cheat-master30 on Jan 11, 2011 17:25:13 GMT -5
New Super Mario Bros Wii didn't show many interesting things in the trailers, but it still turned out to have decent gimmicks and ideas and other stuff in later levels.
And for you, you disliked Super Mario Galaxy, but you can't say the makers didn't show all the interesting things from it in the trailers.
Trailers don't really prove a lot either way.
What of Donkey Kong Country Returns? We got a single trailer for months, yet the game was awesome, had lots of interesting new ideas, expanded the universe greatly and was a classic.
There are 'new' enemies in this game, for the Paper Mario series. Whomps for one. That mole king for another, and Wigglers for another. Yes, the two common ones there have never appeared in a Paper Mario game before.
Funny how both ideas here:
Were in Donkey Kong Country Returns concept art. Amber Tracks, and that factory level making the classic games consoles.
But I'm generally optimistic, and have enjoyed most Mario games I've played.
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