What's more canon?

[SMBBQ]

Alright, I'll settle this.

The Subspace Emissary happened. Think of the Smash World/World of Trophies as a dream world, much like Subcon. The SSE did not feature the physical Mario, more like his "Dream Self". (To understand this, you must accept that SMB2 did happen somewhere in The Whole Sort of General Mish-Mash*)

When a character was turned into a trophy, it meant they were in a sort-of comatose state. Yes, these characters were trophies to begin with, but their life-energy was transferred to the trophy. This may happen whenever a character dreams, but that's not important.

Since it's a dream-like world, characters bring bits of their reality with them. DK and Diddy brought the banana hoard, DeDeDe brought his castle, etc.

Tabuu is from Subspace, which is essentially Darkness Incarnate. If he tried to destroy The Smah World (Which is a dream world), he'd also destroy a part of everyone's minds. Essentially cripple them, leaving defenses down when he attacked the rest of Physical Reality.

Campbells Condensed Soup Version: The SSE happened, but it's not as important to the Mario Continuity as it is the entire Nintendo Continuity. They'll all wake up and either not remember it at all, or at least shrug it off the result of too many Super Mushrooms before bed.


*Extra points to anyone who gets the reference.

[Vent]

Aug 27, 2010 19:19:46 GMT -5 EpicGyllynn said:

Look, the Anime's continuity is arguable also(seeing as Falcon dies),

That fact alone is the reason why the anime is a blatantly different continuity from the games, others including:

-Rick Wheeler, Lucy Liberty, Miss Killer and Samurai Goroh's wife do not exist in any form in any F-ZERO game.

-There is no "Dark Million Organization" in the games, and pretty much all of the evil racers have absolutely no connections to one another.

-Captain Falcon is a mysterious bounter hunter named Douglas J. Falcon in the games, while in the anime he's Jody Summer's long lost brother Bart Lemming operating incognito as a superhero vigilante.

Want more? I can provide it.

and how is the character in FZero, different from his Character in SSB.

How many frigging times do I have to explain this!? In SSB, he has all sorts of crazy pyrokinetic moves and goes around acting flamboyant and shouting like a nimrod. In F-ZERO he does no such thing and works covertly as a bounty hunter who normally doesn't use violence to solve his conflicts. What more do you WANT?

Also, no one "dies" in SSBB, the trophy thing during the Mario-Kirby fight could easily be explained via SMBMaster's(or MB364, I can't remember) theory, or a number of different ways. And the rest of Supspace Emissary involves the Trophy Gun(or DeDeDe's Hammer, lol). And the end of the game they were turned into Trophies by Tabuu, the one who MADE the Trophy guns! As you were saying?

I was saying that turning into a Trophy is the equivalent of death in the Smash World, since it's pretty clearly established that everybody there is not the original character but a living trophy modeled after them.

[SMBBQ]

*points to my post*

Didn't I just explain the trophies?

[Vent]

Yeah but you did it in a way that assumes SSB is canon. I was just repeating what Sakurai established in-game, nothing more.

[SMBBQ]

Once more, I only believe that The Subspace Emissary is canon. And even then, it's not as important to Mario Canon as it is Nintendo Canon. Wedon't need to concern ourselves with it, but yes, it happened in every Nintendo Universe.

Why is this so hard to understand?

[Koopalmier]

It doesn't matter though. If it all happened in the world of dreams, then it didn't actually happened in anyone's life... Either it's that, either we go with the most official source we've got - the creator's words (which are that it's another world completely). None of them matter though, but for now we should go with what the creator said. After all, we don't have any proof that it really happened, as it was not mentionned anywhere but in the Smash Bros. series itself.

[Vent]

Aug 28, 2010 19:43:16 GMT -5 SMBBQ said:

Why is this so hard to understand?

It's not hard for me to understand, but just because YOU believe it's canon doesn't mean it is. You had to go to great lengths to explain why it's canon, and even then you fanwanked all of your 'reasoning'.

Based on what Sakurai said and what happened in game, SSB is NOT canon and I'm not going to assume otherwise.

[EpicGyllynn]

Vent
I enjoy having you on the Forum, but is it REALLY neccesary to be so negative? I agree with SMBMaster on most points. I agree with SMBMaster mostly, and I think some characters entered via Dream, but I believe most simply travelled there.

[SMBBQ]

Thanks EpicGyllyn, but if he doesn't want to believe it happened in Nintendo Canon, that's fine. It doesn't really matter.

Nothing really matters, anyone can see. Nothing really matters. Nothing really matters, to me.

Any way the wind bloooows...

Ahem, yes.

[Vent]

Hey, I only leave it out of the canon to make things easier, and because a lot of characters as they appear in SSB contradict their appearances in their respective games. This especially goes for characters who appear in multiple time periods or change as their respective series march on.

Other crossovers tend to be non-canon, just look at Marvel vs. Capcom or those DC/Marvel crossover books. Why can't the same apply to this one?

[Meta Black Yoshi]

I see it as SSB games having their own separate cannon rather than having no cannon at all, but parts of SSB lore ties, or tries to tie that cannon into the cannon of the other games from which the SSB characters supposedly originate.

I remember reading somewhere that the characters seen in Brawl are actually trophy replicas of the actual characters from the main games. To me, this makes it easy to accept that these replica characters may have slightly different powers or characteristics and also be able to interact with other replicas that may be based off of characters from different time periods, dimensions, etc....

In short, I don't really see any contradictions happening in SSB games that mess up the cannon of the main games.

[Vent]

That's what I've been saying this entire time, but everybody else seems to think that SSB IS canon with the rest of the games the characters originated from, which is a massive continuity headache altogether.

[Meta Black Yoshi]

Maybe we just need to be more specific than saying, is cannon/is not cannon.
It sounds like you're just saying that the SSB Characters are not the same characters that appear in the other games as in the Mario that appears in Brawl is not the same Mario that appears in SMG or SM64.

It would appear by what's stated about Brawl that that would be true, however, I wouldn't count that as explicitly removing the possibility of the two universes being related within either version of the cannon. After-all, Shadow Mario is not the same Mario that appears in SMG or SM64 (don't mind that he looks a lot different from Mario and that the real Mario also appears in the same game), but we don't remove the existence of Shadow Mario from the cannon do we?

I guess this was all just a clarity issue. >.>

[Vent]

Basically I was saying that SSB takes place in a world by itself with it's own equivalents of each of the characters.

In other words, yes SSB!Mario does not = Mario series!Mario.

This means that SSB should not have any effects on the 'canon' of the Mario games nor any other Nintendo series, much like Marvel vs. Capcom has no effects on any Marvel comics or Capcom games.

[SMBBQ]

Alright, I can live with that explanation.

[EpicGyllynn]

Seeing as there is no In-game evidence to base either theories on, I deem this argument pointless, until the next SSB is inevitably released. Why I still stand by my theory, and shall do so until a game proves me wrong.

[Vent]

Brawl proves you wrong. I've been saying why throughout this topic. )X

[EpicGyllynn]

State ONE instance IN Brawl, where I'm proven wrong! Captain Falcon will use violence if necessary, and the fate of the Multiverse is something he can't race his way through!

[Vent]

The entire game takes place in a world that has never appeared any other Nintendo game ever. All of the characters are not the characters we know and love but living trophies based on them. Their only goal in life is to fight each other all day for the amusement of an invisible audience. Then Tabuu decided to conquer this world and turn them all into trophies permanently by manipulating the Ancient Minister, Master Hand, and the Bowser and Ganondorf trophies.

Is that not enough evidence or should I go over each and every contradiction that each character possesses?

[EpicGyllynn]

We've already developed multiple theories the Trophy thing could be explained. Oh, and based on that logic, Majora's Mask, Oracle of Ages/Seasons, Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door, and World 5 from NSMB must not be canon. See how silly that sounds? When IN the game do we see that their sole purpose is fighting? In fact, the only ones we see fighting are Mario & Kirby(Competing in Tourney). Peach and Zelda are watching the Tourney(And possibly discussing Political matters). Link is looking for the Master Sword(The first Forest Scene is in the Lost Woods, he then finds himself in the World of Trophies). Yoshi is taking a nap(No comment ). Solid Snake is apparently on a Secret Mission(As usual, but I assume he thinks the whole event was just a dream). Ice Climbers are mountain climbing(As usual). Meta Knight is trying to get his ship back. Lucario is meditating(As usual). And Olimar is exploring a new Planet(He probably wound up here by falling in a Worm Hole). You see, everything can be explained, but I don't want to go in-depth on all of them at one time, give me a character in the game(preferably 1st party), and I will explain how they got there(at least what I believe).