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Post by Koopalmier on Aug 20, 2010 0:35:34 GMT -5
Mario & Luigi 2 didn't existed at the time of Mario Superstar Baseball. The events of Mario & Luigi 2 DIDN't HAPPENED YET at the time of Mario Superstar Baseball. In case you forgot, Baby Peach doesn't get kidnapped in that game.
And sorry, I hate reading.
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Post by Sarisa on Aug 20, 2010 1:19:02 GMT -5
Mario & Luigi 2 didn't existed at the time of Mario Superstar Baseball. The events of Mario & Luigi 2 DIDN'T HAPPENED YET at the time of Mario Superstar Baseball. In case you forgot, Baby Peach doesn't get kidnapped in that game. Baby Peach doesn't. Adult Peach does. While it happened later in her personal timeline, it happened earlier in the absolute timeline! Any person compiling such information could have read about her kidnapping in the distant past and added it to the list. That's a shame. I know how painful it is to read in a foreign language, but 1984 is widely translated and at a middle school reading level. In 1984, there are "unpersons". Unpersons are people whose existence is denied by the state. All references to them - articles, documents, pictures - are destroyed, and acknowledging their existence is considered a crime. I called SMRPG un-canon by analogy with unperson. |
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Post by Koopalmier on Aug 20, 2010 10:09:07 GMT -5
Her kidnapping was in the distant past but it's the Peach of the present, that wasn't kidnapped yet. I have a serious theory about the past events of M&L2 being not supposed to happen originally, I should make a topic about this. Plus I don't see why they'd have got informations about a future game when they based the bio on past ones. They couldn't even reference Super Mario Galaxy in Mario Super Sluggers, because they started the devellopement sooner than SMG's but released the game later than SMG.
And the bio is for the people who read it, right ? Said people is the players, right ? The players didn't know about Peach's kidnapping in the past.
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Post by Sarisa on Aug 20, 2010 13:09:28 GMT -5
Indeed, it's a strained reading, but it does work now IMO.
But the larger point, regardless of chronophysics, is that SMRPG can't be more than alluded to for legal reasons so nothing in it should be seen as canon; it's been excised except for Zelda-level cameos. It happened in our hearts, but there's no need to try to reconcile the SMRPG world with the PM/M&L world; the latter simply overwrote the former.
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Post by Artemendo on Aug 20, 2010 13:30:45 GMT -5
While I couldn't agree more with you, I must add that SMRPG also had a great deal of influence on Mario's world, like the Action Commands. And who knows, maybe some concepts from SMRPG will be picked up by Mario games in the future. Not the characters or places, however, that's sure.
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Post by Vent on Aug 20, 2010 18:03:11 GMT -5
I would like to take this opportunity to point out that a Geno doll appears in M&L1, which means that yeah, SMRPG was canon. Sorry.
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Post by Sarisa on Aug 20, 2010 20:01:07 GMT -5
A Samus doll appears in SMRPG, which means Metroid is canon too...uh....let's not go there.
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Post by Vent on Aug 20, 2010 22:21:22 GMT -5
Or, Metroid is available as a video game in the Mushroom Kingdom, just like Pyoro and all the video games that WarioWare Inc. makes. Naturally there's going to be merchandise based on it. Hell, Mario vs. Donkey Kong has showed us that collectible action figures are a huge market in the Mushroom Kingdom. Geno could easily be a popular brand of toy.
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Post by Koopalmier on Aug 20, 2010 22:37:42 GMT -5
Both Samus and Geno were small cameos. But "Geno"'s appearance showed Nintendo doesn't ignore Super Mario RPG.
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Post by Sarisa on Aug 21, 2010 1:07:30 GMT -5
All right, you've made your point that Nintendo doesn't completely ignore the game's existence. However, that Geno doll is the only hint of SMRPG-specific content (i.e. not gameplay influence, which has plausible deniability) we've seen in 15 years. I still maintain that SMRPG-only information should be considered the lowest level of canon, on par with cartoons, comics, and other Mario spinoffs - possibly useful for elucidating a point, especially when said point went on to be featured in indisputably canon games (like Bowser's attitude towards his allies), but overruled by other games past and future.
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Post by Vent on Aug 21, 2010 11:55:48 GMT -5
You also forgot the Shamans, and the Buzzers (which re-appear as "Bumblers" in Mario Pinball Land).
I imagine if Nintendo had full permission from Square, they'd start referring to SMRPG again. Sadly that isn't the case, but lacking the rights to what was otherwise a perfectly intact game doesn't negate it from any possible canon.
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Post by PDoogan on Aug 21, 2010 13:33:31 GMT -5
You also forgot the Shamans, and the Buzzers (which re-appear as "Bumblers" in Mario Pinball Land). No, I mentioned shamans on the last page. I don't know about buzzers though, a lot of video game bee enemies look similar. |
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Post by Vent on Aug 21, 2010 15:07:12 GMT -5
For comparison...   ...eh you're probably right about that. Still, a copyright dispute is no reason to write a game off as having never existed. At least SMRPG is a game that's explicitly stated to take place amongst the other Mario games and not a cartoon or movie made by an outside source with extensive creative liberties. |
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Post by SMBBQ on Aug 22, 2010 17:09:21 GMT -5
I couldn't agree with you more Dino.
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Post by shadowgoomba on Aug 23, 2010 11:49:28 GMT -5
Geno could easily be a popular brand of toy. Just wanted to quote this for the irony behind it. |
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Post by Vent on Aug 23, 2010 17:05:41 GMT -5
.......How is it ironic?
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Post by Sarisa on Aug 23, 2010 18:08:25 GMT -5
"Geno" has a true name unpronounceable by humanoids, turtles, or cloud-things; he calls himself Geno because that was the name of the doll he possessed.
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Post by Koopalmier on Aug 23, 2010 18:41:52 GMT -5
So, about the bio of Peach in Mario Superstar Baseball...
Sure, now it may work, but it didn't work before. And we should see the bio from the point of view where the game was just released. I don't know how to explain that...
... and there's my theory that the Shroobs' invasion didn't happen originally.
And it's not like Nintendo was ignoring SMRPG.
- There's the Geno doll in M&L1
- Mario uses two moves from SMRPG in SSBM and SSBB
- The Mario Finale attack itself may come from the Fire Orb attack
- The mine cart music from SMRPG is in SPM (when you take a mine cart in Chapter 5)
- Peach's bio from MSB (at the time of the release, M&L2 didn't came out yet, so they counted SMRPG at least at that time)
- The whole concept of wishes and star-related items was re-used in Paper Mario
- Bowser's Castle at the top of that other hill can be seen in Mario Power Tennis, its remake, and Mario Party DS
- Peach's castle with a blue roof can be seen in Mario Hoops 3-on-3
Overral, SMRPG has been referenced much more times than Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga or Paper Mario. Nintendo simply avoids making direct references to it for copyright reasons and because they do that for every game in the series anyway.
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Post by EpicGyllynn on Aug 23, 2010 18:53:36 GMT -5
Wait... Smrpg on par with cartoons, Canon-wise? I disagree. The cartoons shouldn't even be on the Tier-list, I mean, does Nintendo(of Japan) even know or ackknoledge their existance? Oh well, to each his own.
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Post by Koopalmier on Aug 23, 2010 19:13:14 GMT -5
Miyamoto didn't know who Louis Albano was before someone told him in an interview, so I guess Nintendo of Japan didn't know (or still doesn't know) about the American cartoons. And they completely ignore Mario is Missing in Luigi's bios (and always referred to Luigi's Mansion as being Luigi's first and only solo adventure) so I guess they don't know about it and other obscure games either (like Mario Teaches Typing, Hotel Mario...). I think the only American-made media they know about is the movie, which is obviously not canon.
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