Something's not right with Yoshi's Island DS

[Artemendo]

I mean not even remotely the same age, i.e. when Peach was a baby, the Mario Bros. should have gone to school.
The new, 3D design makes Mario and Luigi's faces all smooth - after all, you don't want to play as people with wrinkles and stuff in a game primarily targeted at kids, also it's more cartoony - but when you look through all the official art of Mario, you see he was never supposed to be young, really. And they wouldn't have hired a man in his fifties to do Mario's voice - now you'll probably say something like "Miyamoto didn't hire him himself" or "The voices aren't part of the characters" - my answer to the first one is "But Miyamoto decided to KEEP him" and to the second one: "They're a bigger part of the characters than that baby thing is."

[SMBBQ]

They could be middle-aged by now, but I doubt they would've started their adventures at that point in their lives.

[Koopalmier]

The voices are mere voices, no ? I mean, it's not rare to see a middle-aged or old person voicing a young character.

Well, let's say Peach was roughly 1, Mario wad roughly 2. They are only separated by a few months though, not by 12 months (for instance, the Mario bros. are born in September and Peach is born in May: thus, in May, Mario and Luigi would still have diapers). Wait, I'm going nowhere with this... Let's be more understandable: let's say Mario & Luigi 2 happens in October 1983, while Mario is born in September 1981 and Peach in May 1982. Mario would be old enough to "talk" (at least to speak) and walk, while Peach would still be learning how to walk. Look, I have a nephew, he's born in July 18, 2008. Thus, he's roughly as old as Baby Mario (in this exemple). He can walk and talk a little bit and stuff. Anyway, um, in this exemple, Mario and Peach's birth days are separated by 7 months. 7 months ago, my nephew couldn't walk yet and he could only say some words. Err... I'm not too understandable now, no ? I'm... not feeling fine.

[SMBBQ]

Okay, I think I know what you're saying. Peach is only a few months younger, right?

[Artemendo]

The Good Old Pre-YI Canon back when canon was actually a non-laughable idea said that the first adventure of Mario was fighting Donkey Kong, and he already looks middle-aged by then.
The New-Age Stupid Baby Canon says they had adventures as babies and as adults... who knows what they did as children and teenagers.

And a final word about my opinion: I am not saying anything of these didn't happen, I am just saying I flat-out don't BELIEVE in Peach and the Mario Bros. being babies/toddlers simultaneously and that whoever came up with this idea should be shot. Sadly, it wasn't even Artoon, it was someone at AlphaDream.

[Koopalmier]

In DK, Mario looked like someone in his 50's. I prefer him as being someone around 25. And I still don't find Mario and Luigi to look older than that... Wario and Waluigi, on the other hand, look like they are middle-aged, but we know they are around the same age as Mario and Luigi and it must come from their evilness / insanity.

... And, a question... Why is the idea of canon in the Mario series a laughable idea ? I mean, I never find that being laughable...

[Artemendo]

It's laughable because...
1) Very little fits together without extensive theorizing, and we just KNOW it's WE who came up with this and not the original creators. Also, Miyamoto has denounced the idea of a Mario continuity many times and says the games are first and foremost built around gameplay ideas.
2) Any time the same location comes up in another game, it looks completely different - and I mean almost ANY TIME. Let's assume all Mario games with adult Mario in them happened over the course of 10, maybe 15 years. It's simply not possible to completely rebuild a castle 50 times during that time - and if you now say Peach's castle hasn't appeared in this many games yet, I say give it time.
3) Time doesn't progress, happenings are rarely referenced except as an inside joke for the fans like in SPM, the world always looks different, and it's SADLY, VERY SADLY a series of kids' games, and kids don't care about continuity or canon, they want to jump on Goombas.

I always assumed we're self-conscious about this in this forum, that we know it's very fun to come up with in-universe explanations for things but the ACTUAL REASONS for almost everything are mostly gameplay or budget-related. It's just not fun to answer stuff like "Why do the Power Stars always have different powers?" with "They're the placeholder magical collectibles for when the designers don't want to make custom ones for the game, like Crystal Stars or Music Keys or whatever."

[SMBBQ]

But working out an epic continuity from these games is the fun part, you gotta admit that.

[Artemendo]

Yes, it is fun, it's very fun. I'm so glad people like you guys exist, and that this forum exists, but taking stuff as seriously as if it actually happened - that's just insane. We're all rational human beings in here.

[Koopalmier]

Aug 26, 2010 11:28:22 GMT -5 Artemendo said:

but taking stuff as seriously as if it actually happened - that's just insane. We're all rational human beings in here.

That's mean. What did I do to you ? ;_;

Things are modificated in each game to make every entry in the series feel fresh and new. It's simply a redesign. The Marioverse would've got boring fast otherwise.
And, may I ask how is the Mario series a series for kids ?

[Vent]

Better question: How is it NOT a series for kids?

Artemendo's right though. Have you all forgotten that we're talking about a series of video games about a fat Italian plumber that saves the princess of a magical land populated by talking mushrooms from a giant fire-breathing turtle?

To get back on topic: I think of it this way: Say each game takes place exactly one year apart.

-Mario was "born" at the beginning of Yoshi's Island, as he pops out of the Stork's bag.

-Luigi is born at the end of Yoshi's Island, which makes Mario older than him by however much time took to beat the game.

-Yoshi's Story takes place. Baby Bowser is apparently old enough to speak now.

-Yoshi's Island DS takes place. Mario, Luigi and all those other babies are kidnapped from their homes. Thus, we don't know how old any of the babies are in relation to one another. If we were to assume that Peach was born at the beginning of this game, that would make Mario and Luigi older than her by two "games".

-The past part of Partners in Time takes place. Here it is established that Peach is younger than Mario and Luigi by one or two years. This thereby validates the theory used for YIDS.

These days, Mario's design makes him look a lot younger than he used to look. Presumably we're led to believe that Mario and Luigi are in fact older than Peach, but not by a lot.

Besides, who the hell wants a 30-year-old protagonist in a relationship with a 20-year-old female lead? Eeeew....

[cheat-master30]

It's not for kids... it's not for anyone in particular. The Mario series is the very definition of an all ages series, and it's not meant to appeal to nerds in general, more like the general population. That's why there aren't things like canon, because quite frankly, it'd put off most of the game's audience, just like how the obsessive canon stuff in Zelda and others series basically appeals squarely to the basement dweller stereotype and puts off the person who wants to play a fun game for the gameplay.

But I like the lack of canon. It allows people to come up with their own ideas, not just end up agreeing with the author's intentions. You can interpret a Mario game any way you want, and if there's a series where alternate interpretations and arguably death of the author come into play, it's certainly this one.

Is Mario a happy go lucky utopic sugar bowl, or a death world dystopia with everything trying to kill you and 1984 style rulership? Is Peach a good ruler, or a tyrant that deserves to be overthrown? Is Mario Mushroom Kingdom Jesus, a normal hero, misguided or darker than he seems?

Heck, is the universe a normal but quirky fantasy type world or a complete mindscrew which would drive a normal person to insanity in trying to comprehend?

None of the above contradicts the games. See the fan fiction and fan games and rom hacks and fan videos and animations, and you can see just how many ways the series can be taken.

You have to like that bit. Otherwise you get stuff like Metroid Other M which are basically creator/author appeal up to eleven.

And hey, the Geographic Flexibility and lack of time progressing is one of the best things about the series. Really, the Mario is up there with The Simpsons for non logical ever changing geography.

[Koopalmier]

Well, not totally. By mixing all the maps we saw, we can make a big map. For The Simpsons, though, it's "a bit" different considering it really doesn't make any sense at all.

[Vent]

How does the Simpsons make any less sense than Mario?

We can't really combine every map we've seen perfectly because not all the maps fit together that well. I thought this was already established.

[Koopalmier]

... Wait, what ? How do they not fit together that well ? They fit perfectly.

And, something's a bit wrong with your timeline. Would Mario and co still wear diapers at the age of 3 ?
Hey, if you made a complete timeline, can you post it on the appropriate topic please ? It'd make my list of timelines more full ! Although I should find a way to make them easier to navigate... Too bad there's no spoilers tags here.

[EpicGyllynn]

Yeah, Koopalmier is right. The Maps do fit together pretty well, SMRPG's being the only difficult one.

[Vent]

Aug 26, 2010 15:15:49 GMT -5 Koopalmier said:

And, something's a bit wrong with your timeline. Would Mario and co still wear diapers at the age of 3 ?

If they were born during Yoshi's Island, then that would make them 2 as of Yoshi's Island DS according to my timeline.

YI to YS is 1 year, then YS to YIDS as another year, for a total of 2 years.

[Koopalmier]

They would still not wear diapers anymore. |

[Le Mario Bro]

...I guess they would just wear Pull-Ups or something at this point...
*thumbs up to the camera* ;D

Shameless commercial plug aside, I don't find it that hard to believe that the Bros and Peach are only like 2, maybe 3 years apart in age. That's actually cutting it a bit close, in my opinion.

Afterall, would you believe that some 50-something dude would be out stompin', chompin', and savin' three different kinds of mushrooms to save a dame that's around, like, 25ish?

[Koopalmier]

If Mario was much older than Peach, his relation with her would be... somewhat disturbing.
And if Yoshi's Island DS is canon, then they may simply be separated by 6 or 7 months - which makes sense if they are 2 in M&L2.