The Dark Star's Power

[will1231]

Hello, I was referred to this topic on GameFAQs after making this exact topic, so I thought I'd come take a look. I was pretty interested in some of the discussions, so I decided to give it a shot. Anyway, here is my hypothesis (copied and pasted from my GF topic).

I was thinking a little bit after I beat the game, and I was considering what would have happened if either Fawful completely absorbed the Dark Star, or if the Dark Star was awakened and not absorbed by Fawful at all.

As we know, the Fawful that Bowser fought and the Dark Star that the Mario Bros. fought prior to the final battle were each only half complete, and as such, they were not able to defeat the protagonists. The heroes again had the same luxury in the final battle, as the Dark Star Core had to focus on keeping both Dark Bowser and Fawful alive in order to ensure its survival. So, if either entity had direct access to the full dark power upon the Dark Star's awakening, would Bowser have been defeated before the Bros. even had a chance to fight? I don't imagine Bowser being quite able to inhale either of them in such a case, so the Bros. might not have been able to assist him. And if Bowser was to fail, would the Mario Bros. fair any better against the full Dark power?

Also, had the Dark Star's power not been split, would it be better off in its purest form, or would Fawful have made better use of it? We know that Fawful is an engineering genius, but could the frail, eccentric bean handle the ancient entity's power, or would the Dark Star have taken control?

What are your thoughts on these hypothetical situations?

[Koopalmier]

Well, the final battle was against the full Dark Star's power, somewhat (Dark Bowser has 50%, Dark Fawful has 50%).
If Dark Bowser was already powerful enough to destroy the whole Mushroom Kingdom, the complete Dark Star could've annihilated it extremely fast. And if Fawful absorbed all the energy of the Dark Star, then he'd have enough power to conquer the planet.

Fawful is not stupid. If he tried to absorb the Dark Star's power, it's that he could control it. The Dark Star did took control of his bug form, though.

[Le Mario Bro]

Which only happened after Bowser severely weakened him in their little bout not 10 seconds earlier.

If Fawful had ducked out before his butt got properly handed to him, then he probably wouldn't have been captured.

Then Dark Bowser's Pokedex would've been incomplete.

[will1231]

Aug 22, 2010 20:51:06 GMT -5 Koopalmier said:

Well, the final battle was against the full Dark Star's power, somewhat (Dark Bowser has 50%, Dark Fawful has 50%).
If Dark Bowser was already powerful enough to destroy the whole Mushroom Kingdom, the complete Dark Star could've annihilated it extremely fast. And if Fawful absorbed all the energy of the Dark Star, then he'd have enough power to conquer the planet.

Fawful is not stupid. If he tried to absorb the Dark Star's power, it's that he could control it. The Dark Star did took control of his bug form, though.

Well, I am not by any means discrediting Fawful's intelligence. After all, the Mushroom Kingdom's technology is primitive compared to any and all of Fawful's inventions, and the bean seemed to do well when he anticipated Bowser's actions (though I don't think he expected the Mario Bros. to survive being inhaled).

However, I'm not so sure that intelligence alone would have quelled any potential uprising on the Dark Star's part. As we saw in the game, the incomplete Dark Star/Bowser seemed a bit displeased that someone had attempted to steal its power. The question is, would Fawful be able to contain its power? I know the Headgear (or Vacuum Helmet if you prefer) does well at containing such forces, but the full power of the Dark Star might be too much for it. If you ask me, the question is really not so much "if" it will take over, but "when" it will.

[Koopalmier]

If the Dark Star could've taken over Fawful, then his plan was ill-fated from the start. Which I don't believe, considering how he always anticipated everything and was only stopped at the very last moment. Maybe that the Headgear can- Oh, wait, something's wrong. Fawful didn't intended to absorb the Dark Star. Only its power. After losing all its power, the Dark Star would have vanished, or would be worthless.

[will1231]

There is truth in that, but also, consider this. The Dark Star's power was more or less an entity in and of itself. Recall during the final battle when it was literally split between Dark Bowser and the Dark Star Core that kept Fawful alive. So, based on that, it's safe to assume that the Dark Star was indeed still alive in Fawful, and due to Fawful's weakened state, was subject to the Dark Star's will (though it may not have been the case if Fawful wasn't defeated outright by Bowser already).

[Koopalmier]

Dark Bowser is the Dark Star itself, while the Dark Star Core is like its brain (or... well... core ?). I think that, when the Core was inside Bowser's body, Dark Bowser actually didn't attack and Bowser waited for something to happen.
If I wasn't clear enough:
- Dark Star / Dark Bowser = body
- Dark Star Core = brain, center, intelligence ; the true form of the Dark Star

[will1231]

Well, there are two holes to that theory.

1) Dark Bowser still functioned while Fawful was outside both their bodies.
2) Bowser's not the patient type that would wait for Dark Bowser to wake up. Besides, if this was the case for this battle, then there'd have to be a similar explanation for why he doesn't fight in the other battles where action takes place both inside and outside of his body (such as against Blizzard Midbus, Dark Fawful, etc.). The battle system is basically a flawed game-play mechanic (but Mario is filled with plot holes, so we just look past most of them =p).

[Koopalmier]

1) The Dark Star Core wasn't part of Dark Fawful. They became the same when Dark Bowser inhaled him.
2) But Bowser knows here that someone or something inside his body is fighting the Dark Star Core, so I see him waiting for Dark Bowser to be operative again. The situation IS serious here, after all. As for the other battles, I don't think he waits: actually, I think the only battle where he actually waits is the final battle.

[will1231]

This response is in regards to both of those points.

Remember that at the end of the battle, the Mario Bros. finish off the Dark Star Core. The Core literally explodes inside Bowser, and immediately after that happens, Dark Bowser then became unstable. This does indeed show that Dark Bowser is reliant on the Core for his own preservation, but it also proves that Dark Bowser is indeed conscious without the Core controlling it. And there's also the fact that Dark Bowser still fights even while Fawful is outside of his body, as I mentioned earlier.

[Koopalmier]

Oh, yes, I forgot the ending scene. Well, I guess you're right, the Dark Star and its core have different intelligences. Or- the Dark Star could divide its intelligence into two.

[will1231]

So, with that in mind, do you still think Fawful would be able to take control of the Dark Star without becoming overwhelmed by its power in the end? I know Fawful is no fool, but he is pretty frail, and there's no telling if his technology would have been enough to contain the power.

[Koopalmier]

If he's a genius, and got himself a powerful minion (Midbus), he must be aware of his own weakness. Maybe that the power of the Dark Star is small yet powerful at the same time ? I mean, like a medicament that is harmless yet can cure something big. Or a small red pepper. After all, all the Dark Star's energy can be contained in a small ball that can't even talk and that can be stopped simply by four electrical lasers (sure, it was enough to knock out Bowser for a while, but Bowser isn't powerful enough to destroy the continent with a hurricane of darkness).

Understandable version: The Dark Star's power is extremely powerful yet can be easily contained and mastered.

(sorry for being delirious and saying nonsense, it's late here - 2 a.m)

[kingkoopa]

If the Dark Star ad its full power, it wouldn't have needed to take Bowser's form. Therefore it would be completely invincible to anything that wasn't spawned by itself. Who knows what the full power of the Dark Star could have done.

[will1231]

Yeah, it is kind of "scary" to think of it that way, especially considering the Mario Bros. themselves couldn't phase it unless its own creations weakened it. Perhaps, if such a case was possible, it'd be better for Fawful to have control of it anyway, since he would have more tactful plans for its power other than destroying everything. But sadly, we'll never know what the full power of the Dark Star, with or without Fawful controlling it, could have done.

[kingkoopa]

Unless Fawful comes back from the dead in M&L4 and gets a hold of some other artifact of equal or greater power to the Dark Star.

[cheat-master30]

Which is possible, he's come back from the dead, or at least implied death before (when he got thrown out the castle window in Superstar Saga).

[kingkoopa]

He didn't die there though you just saw him flying away in a Team Rocket fashion. (They did have a ghost apparation in the Cackletta boss fight though)

[Koopalmier]

They didn't go far enough in M&L1 to show he's dead. He surely was supposed to be, but a cartoony "poof" and his "ghost" appearing during the final battle isn't enough to show he's dead. The "ghost" could've been an illusion made by Cackletta. If they showed more proofes that he died, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have used him anymore.

[kingkoopa]

It was an illusion made by Cackletta since Fawful is clearly alive in the next two M&L games