The paintings of 64.

[Kamikaze Koopa]

So I finally got 150 stars in Super Mario 64DS (*takes a bow* thank you, thank you), and I realized that they never really specified whether Bowser created the worlds inside the paintings or if he just used them as links to existing places. I honestly have no clue on this one, so I'd like to hear some opinions.

[Yoshi Master]

Luckily I have the official Nintendo Power guide. Unfortunatly I can't get it right now. I'll cover this later.

My thoughts is the paintings are portals to areas around Subcon. And the Bowser levels where probably made by Bowser. Like the Shy Guys Toy Box.

And when your outside the castle, the land masses in the background could be the levels.

[Kamikaze Koopa]

Interesting, so you think it ties in with Subcon?

[Yoshi Master]

The areas and some of the enimies are simaler to the ons found in SMB2.

If Subcon is in the Mushroom World we can speculate that the islands in the backgrounds of Peaches castle are the levels.

The guide says the levels are "magical painting worlds. These worlds look like paintings from the outside, but inside, they are real, three-dimensional places, filled with mysteries and all sorts of charecters, both good and bad."

The reason why Mario is thrown out of the painting when he "dies" or gets a star is a mystery. The reason why might show that Bowser indeed create some of the levels.

Also there's the question of even how Bowser got the stars in the first place. And where the stars where.

[Claws]

I've always held that they were actual places and that the paintings just connected them with the castle. I don't have any proof though. But the paintings are definitely magical. Do you think they were always in the castle or that Bowser put them there when he took over? I'd also like to reconcile the way Paper Mario depicts the castle and the way SM64 does. And Kamikaze, since you've completed SM64DS, can you tell me what world Wario is found in? Currently I'm in Lethal Lava Land.

[Kamikaze Koopa]

YoshiMastar said:

Also there's the question of even how Bowser got the stars in the first place. And where the stars where.

I've always figured that Bowser has some double agents working on the inside of the Mushroom government. Much like how the Koopa Bros disguised themselves as Toads in Paper Mario, I'm sure he has spies all through out the Mushroom Kingdom. If some of them could have infiltrated the castle and somehow provided a way of entry for him, then he easily could have overpowered the armed guards of the castle (which, I'm assuming, would be the spear-weilding Toads seen in PM).

Claws said:

Do you think they were always in the castle or that Bowser put them there when he took over? I'd also like to reconcile the way Paper Mario depicts the castle and the way SM64 does. And Kamikaze, since you've completed SM64DS, can you tell me what world Wario is found in? Currently I'm in Lethal Lava Land.

I'm kind of torn on whether the paintings were there already or not. Honestly, I'm thinking they were already there as decorations and that Bowser just utilized them. After all, would would he go through the trouble of providing portals for all of his star guardian's domains?

As for reconciling the castle from both 64 and PM, that seems like a pretty good project. I'll start up a seperate thread for it so we can discuss it extensively.

*SPOILERS*

And in order to find Wario, you need to become Luigi and gain access to the 2nd floor. Once you're up there, go into the Snowman's Land room (the one with all the mirrors) and notice that on the right-hand side of the room there is a painting of Luigi. However, when you look in the mirror the Luigi painting's reflection is actually that of a Wario painting. Grab one of the Power Flowers that's sitting on the two pedastals to become invisible and run through the mirror. Once you're on the other side, jump into the Wario painting to enter his level. You'll have to make your way through the level and defeat a second Chill-Bully to release him.

[Yoshi Master]

Yeah, Bowser must have made the paintings magical. BUT, the paintings show a picture of somthing related to the level. Bowser may have altered the image of the paintings to match the world, or it's coincidence.

And a while ago I thought up a movie of Bowser breaking into the castle and stealing the stars. The stars might be located in or somwhere under the star statue ( behind castle ), and since direct contact with almost 120 magical stars could kill/mutate/ you, a boo probably got them. The stars that Bowser didn't get where elsewhere in the castle ( the 15 secret stars ).

And why is this topic in locations?

[Kamikaze Koopa]

Because the paintings are locations where the evetns take place.

So here's a theory what if the paintings are actually of historical occurances, and Bowser managed to link the paintings to those actual periods of time. For example, Bob-omb Battlefield was obviously some sort form civil war between the red bob-ombs and the black bob-ombs. And they always reffer to certain levels as "fortresses" (Whomp's Fortress, Battle Fort). Could these have been military outposts in previous wars in the Marioverse? Or perhaps one giant war?

My main piece of evidence here is the Bob-omb Buddies. Why would Bowser create the worlds inside of the paintings and then provide them with individuals who would help his enemies? That means that these places probably already exist/existed, and Bowser just linked to them. And if the paintings were already in the castle, then they probably weren't images of current events. And thus, it's possible that they may have been occurances from the past.

[Yoshi Master]

Several of the talking charecters know who Bowser is.
( Bob-omb King, Wiggler, possibly the Whomp King )

So those charecters went inside the paintings and took over the area. Using the paintings to link to the past ( bad game and joke reference ) is illrelavent the "Bob-omb War" could be current and there's no other proof.

Whomp's fortress could be a real place taken over by Whomp's. Notice how small walkways are compared to even the small Whomp's?

The paintings could have magically changed to show the area when Bowser made them portals.

[Kamikaze Koopa]

*shrug* It was just a theory.

[Claws]

Good theory, Kamikaze, but I think the fact that some characters mention Bowser proves that the events in those places are a result of Bowser's actions. So most likely the paintings were portraits of places under Mushroom Kingdom jurisdiction, and when Bowser took control of the castle he turned them into portals to the places they depicted. He then placed his soldiers and generals and whatnot in the paintings to guard the stolen stars.

[Kamikaze Koopa]

Here's another question about the levels in the paintings: why were they all on floating islands? Even Peach's castle seemed to be on one. Did Bowser use magic to rip these places up out of the ground and suspend them in mid-air, or was it something else?

[Claws]

To my knowledge, the only time Peach's Castle has been removed from Mushroom Earth was Paper Mario. And I think those islands have been suspended in air by magic for a long time.

[Kamikaze Koopa]

But if you fly around outside Peach's castle, you can see that there's nothing surrounding it aside form ocean.

[Yoshi Master]

I think we can agree Peach's castle is connected to land and the completly surrounded by ocean thing is from bad graphics.

In any case I played M64 again and had the exact same thought: Bowser tore these islands up off the ground. Mabey if the natives didn't coperate with Bowser he would cause the lands to fall and be destroyed with the natives.
And, surrounding the islands is a magical force that's keeping it suspended. If the natives and only the natives went off the land they would be magically destroyed. Mario isn't destroyed cus he came to the lands after the magic was all set. So he just gets warped back to the painting. That's how Bowser can go back and forth to those places, just jumping off.

On a side note Bowser needed the power of the stars to do all that.

[Kamikaze Koopa]

yoshimastar said:

I think we can agree Peach's castle is connected to land and the completly surrounded by ocean thing is from bad graphics.

One of the points of this site is that we can work around the idea of graphical restrictions.

Everything else, I agree on.

[Claws]

But SM64DS corrected this graphical flaw. Since SM64DS is the most up-to-date version of the adventure, I'm going to go with its depiction.

[Yoshi Master]

The pointy hills you mean?

[Kamikaze Koopa]

How did they correct it?

[Yoshi Master]

I think they just made hills.