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Post by EpicGyllynn on Jun 4, 2011 16:37:39 GMT -5
Greetings everybody! I believe I found a great real-world religious Afterlife to compare the Underwhere/Overthere with: Judeo-Christianity's Sheol, or, "the Grave.". Basically, according to the Holy Bible, in Old Testament times whenever a person died, regardless of how righteous or unrighteous they are, they enter Sheol. However, there are two sides of Sheol, separated by a gulf: Paradise (called "Abraham's Bosom" by Jesus) where the departed Spirits of the righteous gleefully awaited the Resurrection, and Hades, where the damned awaited Judgement in torment. Sound similar? Just replace Sheol with "Afterlife," Paradise with "Overthere," Hades with "Underwhere," and "torment" with "boredom.". Sounds right from where I'm sitting!
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Post by Le Mario Bro on Jun 4, 2011 17:06:19 GMT -5
Well technically, in the Aftergame, you get sent straight to the Underwhere, in which you need to prove your righteousness to Queen Jaydes before you get to move on to the Overthere, and even then, it's hell trying to get up there. (pardon the pun)
So, no Scheol, no Limbo, no "innocent-until-proven-guilty," nothing.
Other than that, yeah. Sounds good to me.
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Post by EpicGyllynn on Jun 4, 2011 17:14:09 GMT -5
Well, it's close enough right? Ther's also no river seperating the two, that void being filled with a staircase, but I think it's a fair comparrison to make. Also, if Bonechill's Prison is the equivelent of Hell, then is there an equivelent of Heaven, or is the Overthere as good as it gets.
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Post by Le Mario Bro on Jun 4, 2011 17:38:16 GMT -5
Well, it's close enough right? Ther's also no river seperating the two, that void being filled with a staircase, but I think it's a fair comparrison to make. Also, if Bonechill's Prison is the equivelent of Hell, then is there an equivelent of Heaven, or is the Overthere as good as it gets. No, I think Bonechill's Prison is just a certain area of the Underwhere. There may be different sections of both places based on just how righteous or damned you actually were in life. (Ala Slightly Damned) Also, I never picked up that comparison of the Overthere Stair with the River Styx. I always just associated it with the River Twygz. (right down to the ferryman) Nice deduction, Mr. Gylls. |
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Post by cheat-master30 on Jun 4, 2011 19:06:55 GMT -5
Bonechill's prison isn't hell, it's likely a reference to the lowest floor in hell from Dante's Inferno, with Bonechill being the Mario equivalent to Satan/Lucifer/whatever name, trapped entirely in ice at the core of hell.
As the above poster said, the more likely answer is that the Underwhere is hell/purgator in one, and the Overthere is basically heaven (the Christian/Jewish/Islamic version apparently).
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Post by EpicGyllynn on Jun 4, 2011 21:43:16 GMT -5
I know, the Underwhere is similar to Hell/Gehenna/Sheol, and the Overthere to Heaven/Paradise. Also, are Nimbi's supposed to be the equivelent of Angels, or are they the deceased Spirits of good people?
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Post by Koopalmier on Jun 5, 2011 11:34:12 GMT -5
That's a question. The game never tells us, and doesn't give hints either.
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Post by cheat-master30 on Jun 5, 2011 20:57:39 GMT -5
Considering Bonechill, the Lucifer expy is an ex Nimbi (see the wings he has), I'd say they're likely to be angels.
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Post by Koopalmier on Jun 7, 2011 12:54:52 GMT -5
But people who didn't lose lives too stupidly go to the Overthere. Does that mean nobody could survive the path between the Underwhere and the Overthere ? Or people who go to the Overthere become Nimbis ? Or nobody ever went to the Overthere...
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Post by EpicGyllynn on Jun 14, 2011 16:33:14 GMT -5
But if Nimbi's are Angels, then where do the deceased Spirits of people go? Maybe they go to the Overthere and we just didn't see them because it wasn't relevent to the story, but then again, neither were Shaydes... I am so confused. So let me gather mu thoughts and come up with a premise: Upon Game Over, a person's Spirit enters a part of the Aftergame called the Underwhere, a place of eternal boredom; Upon proving your righteousness to Queen Jaydes, a person can ascend the Overthere Stair to an equivelent of Paradise called, well, the Overthere. Whether or not God exist in the Mario Universe is debatable, but we know one thing for certain, it's NOT King Gambi, who is obviously a Nimbi. Also, If Spirits must inevitibley ascend, then why is it that Ghost T. from Paper Mario doesn't have to? Other undead characters could be explained due to their immense power, but Ghost T.'s case is much a more perplexing situation. Also, are the Portait Ghost in Luigi's Mansion just deceased Spirits bound to the Mansion by King Boo, or are they fake Ghost? If they are deceased Spirits, then are their Souls still on Earth, or have they passed on into the Aftergame?
P.S. Soul's are a person's conscience, personality, and self-awareness, while the Spirit is just what allows you to live.
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Post by kingkoopa on Jun 14, 2011 17:09:21 GMT -5
Ghosts are apparently a species if you take E. Gadd's quote from the LM2 Demo at face value.
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Post by cheat-master30 on Jun 14, 2011 18:14:01 GMT -5
I'd say the ones in Luigi's Mansion are real ghosts, they were turned into paintings and collected by E Gadd prior to the game.
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Post by EpicGyllynn on Jun 14, 2011 21:12:11 GMT -5
kingkoopaCan I get an exact quote, please? Thank you. @cheat-master30 I know. I was just trying to start a conversation.
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Post by kingkoopa on Jun 14, 2011 21:28:07 GMT -5
Several. when you catch the ghost in the library E. Gadd says: "Time's a-marching on! Bring the specimen back to my bunker, youngster.
Also at the beginning: "Hello Luigi, ready for another task? A powerful paranormal being lurks within the mansion... My sensors indicate it spends most of its time messing around in the library. We've got to capture it so I can study its wierd powers. They intrigue me, son."
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Post by EpicGyllynn on Jun 14, 2011 23:37:52 GMT -5
Wait, so are Ghost a species all their own, like a Boo, or deceased people? If the former is true, then that'd make everything so much easier to explain!
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Post by Koopalmier on Jun 15, 2011 6:58:35 GMT -5
I think there are ghosts, and, well... ghosts.
You have actual ghosts - spirits of dead people, who apparently don't go to the after-life because they don't feel like they've done everything in their life yet, or just want to stay in the living's world (Ghost T., most of LM's Portrait Ghosts).
And ghosts - species of monsters who are lacking an actual body, but can appear under a physical form (and disappear, too...). That'd be Boos, LM ghosts (yeah, the ones in Lugii's Mansion are created by Van Gore, but Superstar Saga showed these actually exist as a species).
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Post by cheat-master30 on Jun 15, 2011 7:39:19 GMT -5
Which one of the two is Bogmire and Bouldergeist? I'm assuming they're the same species, yet both are more monster like and the former is a portrait ghost.
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Post by Vent on Jun 15, 2011 14:30:34 GMT -5
They're both the second variety. He didn't say all Portrait Ghosts were spirits of dead beings you know. Jarvis is another example of a monster ghost.
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Post by EpicGyllynn on Jun 15, 2011 16:12:25 GMT -5
Anybody else feel sorry that the portrait ghost never get to go to the Aftergame? I mean, being stuck in a portrait the rest of eternity would suck!
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Post by kingkoopa on Jun 15, 2011 18:32:40 GMT -5
Well Madame Clarivoya or whatever her name was actually enjoyed the painting so I figure it isn't that bad.
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