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Post by boodestroyer on Apr 23, 2011 20:16:41 GMT -5
 Yep, yep, and yep. (Could somebody 'shop that logo below into an English version?)Anyways, another M&L title, but with Wario and Waluigi teaming up?! As usual, Mario and Luigi get the A and B buttons respectively. The X button is for Wario and the Y button is for Waluigi. The Mario Bros. maintain their standard techniques: jumping, hammer, and their varied dual attacks. What Wario and Waluigi, they use punch attacks, and their dual attacks range from stuff like Waluigi using his wacky gizmos on Wario to keep enemies at bay (like using Wario as a cannonball with a cannon of sorts) and Wario outright abusing Waluigi to attack (like holding Waluigi like a bow and firing arrows with him). At a few points in the story, all four come together and the battle layouts get even more intense as certain enemies get more furious. Basically, the story would basically see a villainous mad scientist named Qorba - A cousin of Midbus's, I guess. Same species, but slimmer, shorter, and smarter. (Until an image comes around, let's see him as a "?" for right now, like usual with most villains) He's heck-bent on keeping on with his dangerous, maniacal experiments to cause panic and trouble all over the Mushroom Kingdom. All four heroes come together on an adventure to stop this madness. Now, as for the rest, well, let's make this one a group effort. Any of you can add onto it so far and amend if necessary. Guide character, additions to the battle systems, etc. |
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Post by kingkoopa on Apr 24, 2011 21:12:37 GMT -5
Wasn't there another topic in here with a VERY similar idea?
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Post by Sarisa on Apr 28, 2011 2:24:42 GMT -5
And yes, this is kinda complicated. Basically, it involves a team consisting of Midbus (Mario and Luigi Bowser's Inside Story) and Rudy the Clown (Wario Land 3/Dr Mario 64) attacking the Mushroom World after something or another, but actually going outright and for a change attacking Diamond City from WarioWare as well.... It is a good idea. Unfortunately the full writeup is gone along with DSUltimate. |
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Post by boodestroyer on Apr 28, 2011 12:10:57 GMT -5
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Post by cheat-master30 on Apr 28, 2011 19:34:16 GMT -5
Hey! I kinda dislike how people always say anything I write isn't creative, but truth be told, I prefer it that way. No pesky Mary Sues and fan characters to get in the way, and in theory a story which is 100% within the possible bounds of canon.
Especially considering the villain in your version is basically an until now off screen relative of a past villain... that's not particularly creative either, is it?
But I do like the fancy logo, good job on the picture!
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Post by boodestroyer on Apr 28, 2011 21:32:16 GMT -5
Hey! I kinda dislike how people always say anything I write isn't creative, but truth be told, I prefer it that way. No pesky Mary Sues and fan characters to get in the way, and in theory a story which is 100% within the possible bounds of canon. Especially considering the villain in your version is basically an until now off screen relative of a past villain... that's not particularly creative either, is it? Did you not even see the DA link I posted? The Mario series is anything you want it to be, and that idea there proves that. How did you not know that by now? Fans don't always ruin everything, mind. And at this rate, what CAN'T be a Mario character now? (Besides anything too realistic/intense, of course) There's more with every game; It's like a straight-up requirement to come up with new characters for each. There's a reason most of the Mario characters you see are one-offs too. So nothing "breaks teh canon(!!!11)" of the Mario series. Nothing. In other words, fan characters for something like Mario can be plausible in any event, so long as they're within the fundamentals of the series, and try to help out with anything in the game, if need be. They just have to be done right. So I can't use Cackletta, the Shroobs, Fawful, or Midbus for this just because they were official (cause...yeah, that is pretty shallow). It's better to come up with another one (like Qorba here) because a new villain spices things up better for a new game, and if there's another M&L installment, then it needs one. Okay, so I wouldn't say that yours was "uncreative", but that's just how these things operate. You don't have to be a part of Nintendo to figure that out.People say they want new games, but don't expect any new ideas/characters/etc. Then what's the point? Doesn't seem to me like you really get how it works, to be honest. Well, that isn't mine. I found it somewhere, and decided to expand upon it. |
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Post by Sarisa on Apr 28, 2011 23:20:09 GMT -5
Wow, is finals season really getting to you, boodestroyer? What did cheat-master30 do to you, besides having your idea eight months ago?
If you've ever read fanfiction, boodestroyer, you have to admit that original ideas are usually painfully bad ideas, and the best authors are almost always those that work only with canon characters. Original characters are usually self-inserts, horribly unlikable, and the worst part of the entire poorly written story.
On the other hand, a new villain out of absolutely nowhere is exactly what happens in most Mario RPGs, and much more believable in that way than bringing back Midbus and Rudy as a team. Secondary villains come and go, but Fawful's return and promotion to main villain was abnormal for Mario in general, and Midbus pulling it off would strain credulity without a very intelligent partner/master. Bowser has a hereditary army, some very good magitechnical advisors, and charisma to make up for his middling-low intelligence; Fawful had amazing magitek skills, considerable experience making evil plots, and genius intelligence; what do Midbus and Rudy have?
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Post by boodestroyer on Apr 28, 2011 23:28:20 GMT -5
Wow, is finals season really getting to you, boodestroyer? What did cheat-master30 do to you, besides having your idea eight months ago? Look, instead of jumping to conclusions, try to actually read what I said and take some hints. I'm only mad because while I'm trying to explain things clearly, you're just not getting any of it. You completely missed my points. I was trying to point out how exactly these things work, and tried not to be a jerk about it. What I was saying is that the Mario series is anything you choose it to be. If you're going to try a game idea of it, all of it is entirely in your hands. Sure, you keep the fundamentals intact, but with every Mario game comes new characters and such. Continuity is overrated, and shouldn't get in the way of what should appear in another installment. This is what new games are all about, after all. chetrippo.deviantart.com/art/Paper-Mario-The-Book-of-Ages-61187424Just take a hint from this. (Yeah, you hate that clock guy, don't you?) And there's a big, big difference between game ideas and fanfiction. With that, stop letting all the bad original characters/ideas blind you from the actually good ones (as rare as they are, but they're indeed around). Exactly my point. Again, if you don't expect any new ideas next time, then don't even bother wanting any new games. Plain and simple. |
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Post by Sarisa on Apr 29, 2011 4:43:57 GMT -5
Look, instead of jumping to conclusions, try to actually read what I said and take some hints. I'm only mad because while I'm trying to explain things clearly, you're just not getting any of it. You completely missed my points. I was trying to point out how exactly these things work, and tried not to be a jerk about it. What I was saying is that the Mario series is anything you choose it to be. If you're going to try a game idea of it, all of it is entirely in your hands. Sure, you keep the fundamentals intact, but with every Mario game comes new characters and such. Continuity is overrated, and shouldn't get in the way of what should appear in another installment. This is what new games are all about, after all. A word of advice for future life: while writing in a tone of rage is wonderful for venting anger, the effect is to transmit anger to your readers, not persuade them of anything. The high emotional charge overrides the words. If they already disagreed with you, the result is readers disagreeing with you angrily. I had to re-read your post a few times before the red cleared from my eyes (metaphorically speaking) and I could appreciate your third paragraph. The artistic merit of original characters in fangames is a matter of opinion. It is something about which reasonable people can disagree because of a lack of objective, external standards of artistic merit. I didn't completely miss your points; I understood them and chose to explain a reason why original characters are not self-evidently wonderful. Actually, Paper Mario: The Book of Ages makes a good example of my point about fanfiction. The pictures are fine fan art, but the attached fan fiction is formatted illegibly and written as a plot summary; as fanfiction, it's poor. Different medium, different standards of excellence. That's not to say that a fan-written Paper Mario 4 full of original characters can't be good; I'm a fan of Paper Mario: The Temple of the Sun. It has plenty of whitespace to ease online reading, large amounts of dialogue, and detailed exposition. A frequent subplot is an author-created but plausible weakness in Mario's character and his struggle to overcome it; that's not something you can express in a picture, and many games don't rise to that level of characterization. It's best expressed in the medium of fiction. The problem is that for every The Temple of the Sun, there are dozens of The Book of Ages. It's enough to sour a reader on the whole genre; there comes a point when the enjoyment of finding a really good fanfic isn't worth digging through the pile of horrid ones, and the reader turns to pure-canon fics and their higher average quality. Describing Qorba as a cousin of Midbus is another red flag for the fanfic veteran; untold numbers of horrible OCs have been introduced as a same-generation relative of some canon character. I have seen relative-OCs do well - three, to be exact, in two unrelated fandoms. I saw dozens of horrible ones, until out of self-protection I started scrupulously avoiding any story pitched as "So-and-so's [relative] appears!" It is a setup that is unoriginal, unpromising, and un-Mario. It would be better to leave Qorba's family unspecified. I have no objection to Qorba being a member of Midbus's species; that is the sort of continuity nod that expands the world of Mario. The worst thing is that your exact argument - "The Mario series is anything you want it to be" - is the argument of thin-skinned horrible OC authors the Internet over. It's the worst argument you can make because it's so tainted by association. So many unpleasant people use it as a defense of their latest self-insert slash masterpiece that when you use it you look like one yourself. There are arguments in favor of using original characters in fangames that don't cost you respect; I tried to advance one. You're not doing yourself any favors by insulting everyone who disagrees with your love of original characters. There is a place for pure canon fanwork as well; Paper Bowser World doesn't have a single original character, the gameplay conceit (running around SMB worlds as Paper Bowser) was taken from TTYD, and it's still entertaining, because it's just fun to watch the role reversal and absurd dialogue. Nobody plays a Mario game for groundbreaking characters and plot! Fanwork is fanwork because of the tension between another author's canon and the immediate author's creativity. Have you considered original work? Cut the chain that tethers you to canon like a Chain Chomp to a peg and be as creative as you please! |
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Post by boodestroyer on Apr 29, 2011 12:20:58 GMT -5
Well okay, I see most of where you're coming from.  A few other things are certain though: Describing Qorba as a cousin of Midbus is another red flag for the fanfic veteran; untold numbers of horrible OCs have been introduced as a same-generation relative of some canon character. I have seen relative-OCs do well - three, to be exact, in two unrelated fandoms. I saw dozens of horrible ones, until out of self-protection I started scrupulously avoiding any story pitched as "So-and-so's [relative] appears!" It is a setup that is unoriginal, unpromising, and un-Mario. It would be better to leave Qorba's family unspecified. I have no objection to Qorba being a member of Midbus's species; that is the sort of continuity nod that expands the world of Mario. Note the "I guess" at that part. It means I was uncertain about his relation to Midbus, and maybe could not be related (still the same species). Well, I was a fan of that dynamic in TTYD, and it certainly does make sense, depending on what kind of game you're aiming for. With games, you just gotta work for what you think is good to make it play decently. I suppose this is where the already-established characters alone are fine. Right, I wouldn't claim originals to be all that important. Once again, it just depends what you're aiming for. On the account that I did try some original characters before, only a few of them actually passed while all the others failed miserably. Did you notice that Nintendo seems to hate new franchises? (Okay, maybe not "hate", but...) Most of the time, whenever original/new franchises are attempted with them, they end up getting retooled into Mario later. It's happened so much in their past. Even most of their other major franchises (which they claim to be soooo proud and possessive of) are getting screwed over a lot. |
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Post by thedude3445 on May 1, 2011 22:17:32 GMT -5
lol why is there a fight over Mario OCs it's not like the RPG villains get any devlopment besides Bowser anyway, they're just villain sues or funny characters and you know this is true  |
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Post by Sarisa on May 2, 2011 2:30:11 GMT -5
Changing the subject, while looking at some old threads I had the disturbing thought that Koopalmier is right; the closest "relatives" of the Mario RPGs, among turn-based JRPGs, are the Mother games. Look at Mother 3: it has bright, cheery, modern-ish environments, strange enemies and stranger humor, self-referential moments (although not as sustained an assault on the fourth wall as Mother 2/Earthbound), and even a timed-hit battle system. Somehow, that just sits wrong with me; if you've seen the Drago fang scene you probably have the same feeling, but the similarities are there.
However, that suggests a possible mine of ideas. For example, one distinctive feature of Mother is the scrolling HP meter; if a character with 70 HP takes a lethal 90-HP blow, the HP meter scrolls down rather than going straight to 0. If you were lucky and already had a heal lined up that round, he'll live; if you're very fast on the buttons and sacrifice your timed attacks, you might get a heal in in time. (Healing makes the HP meter scroll up, but I don't believe it can be blocked from taking full effect by an enemy attack.) It would be a good match for a Mario RPG.
I think you implied this in your first post, but I also like the idea of Mario and Luigi's story being separate from Wario and Waluigi's story, without the intimate cooperation of BIS. I like the idea of alternating between the two sets, undertaking different missions and clearing different obstacles, except for a few special four-person segments (including the final dungeon and Qorba).
Also, come to think of it, has Wario ever been to the Mushroom Kingdom aside from sporting events? Does he have any reason to visit?
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Post by cheat-master30 on May 2, 2011 10:32:23 GMT -5
Wario's been there. See Super Mario Land 2 and Super Mario 64 DS. Both platformers, both had Wario as major characters, and both plausibly set in the Mushroom Kingdom.
I'd disagree about the cheery bit, whether in regard to Mario or the Mother games. Partners in Time was about the darkest Mario game in existance, and well... you know what the final areas and such of the Mother games are like. Actually, you know what, Fawful reminds me a bit of Porky to some degree, especially the whole 'ego' thing. Both narcissistic villains with no real aim to there actions other than the personal entertainment value of being evil.
Heck, they both even become the Big Bad after being The Dragon to an earlier game's villain too.
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Post by Sarisa on May 2, 2011 14:08:24 GMT -5
I recall thinking that SML2 was set outside the MK as a kid, but looking back it makes more sense if it's a private island within the MK. And I have to give you SM64DS.
I meant more that they're drawn in bright primary colors and look cheerful. Onett looks cheerful, never mind that downtown has been taken over by a gang, the mayor is incompetent, and the cops really have nothing better to do than beat up 13-year-old protagonists (but not the gang). Tazmily looks happy. Earthbound is like PiT in that the storyline is dark, but nothing truly bad happens to the heroes themselves. Except the robot thing. And Magicant was just weird.
I'm not sure I see the close connection between Fawful and Porky. Fawful was a deranged, self-proclaimed villain from the start. Porky Minch was the obnoxious boy next door when you first met him - annoying, but not evil. That makes a big difference.
Anyhow, are there any other good ideas to steal from Mother? The emotional palette is right out, but Qorba could brainwash normally harmless local Toads (no other species would have the right impact) into attacking the Mario Bros.
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Post by thedude3445 on May 2, 2011 19:48:46 GMT -5
You called Pokey Porky ಠ_ಠ The Earthbound series has always been about affectionately parodying pop culture and enemies and cities being based on modern concepts, while Mario is a bizzare fantasy that can never go Zeerust. I see very few similarities between them, unless you mean Mother 3, which I haven't played. the color palletes of M3 and M&L would be because they're both on GBA, probably. Taking gameplay from Earthbound is fine (creating weapons yeah!!!!!) but the story, mood, tone, etc. wouldn't be good for Mario, IMO. EDIT: Instantly I remembered TTYD, which is closest in mood to Earthbound. TTYD successfully makes many pop culture references and has some pretty good nightmare fuel (well not *good*, but you know), but it is made in a way that it doesn't specifically place itself in any time era. If you go back and play it, it'll feel just as modern as it did in 2004, which is different from games like GTA (when they're set in modern day). |
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Post by Sarisa on May 2, 2011 20:44:12 GMT -5
It doesn't help that I'm working my way through Mother 3 (and yes, I'm pretty well spoilered, including the guy with the helmet), so by now it's clear that "Pokey" was an unfortunate mistranscription ("Pokey" and "Porky" would be written identically in Japanese).
The tone of Mother 3 is totally inappropriate for Mario. Think PiT and add, say, Luigi being shroobified instead of Toadiko, more and more damage to the castle in the present as things get worse in the past, and seeing Shroob monstrosities being made in the Vim Factory. That should be about the right level of darkness for M3 chapter 1. It's great stuff, but the game's tagline is "Strange, Funny, Heartrending" and it delivers amply. People cry playing this game.
Oddly enough, you can't create weapons in either Earthbound or Mother 3. There is something satisfying about beating up monsters with yo-yos and 2x4s (a character in Mother 3 can do this), but no item creation system.
A question for the OP: What is Wario getting out of this? Qorba's wealth would logically be tied up in things Wario can't use, although that's fixable.
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Post by thedude3445 on May 5, 2011 18:32:05 GMT -5
Yeah, Jeff can combine items to make new weapons! Yeah I have no idea about the tone or mood of Mother 3 I just know it's completely different from Earthbound lol |
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Post by Sarisa on May 6, 2011 0:42:43 GMT -5
I thought Jeff just repaired them; I forgot they combined. Shows it's been too long since I played Earthbound.
Mother 3 has its light moments and its weird moments, but the overall tone is dark - not relentlessly dark, but if you recall Snake's codec conversation about Lucas, keep in mind it all happens on-screen in Mother 3.
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Post by thedude3445 on May 6, 2011 2:40:44 GMT -5
I've HEARD terribly sad and unnerving things in Mother 3, and I also saw the unused Giygas boss, which was extremely creepy lol. If Mario ever took its story that far I would scream Though a little sad would never hurt. Last multimedia thing I cried at was Toy Story 3, and then before that... Sonic Adventure 2 Battle's ending made me teary. And I was also 8 |
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Post by Koopalmier on May 8, 2011 15:28:16 GMT -5
The MOTHER series is the closest you can get to a Mario RPG, but it's still very different.
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