The Small / Super Mario problem. Let's resolve it.

[Koopalmier]

Here we go !

First, you know the 2D platformers have this system: when Mario takes a hit, he goes small, and when he takes a hit while being small, he dies. If he eats a Super Mushroom while being small, he'll turn back to being Super Mario. He always starts in small form, leading to believe it's his true form, but Super Mario Advance games' cutscenes lead to believe his real form is the Super Mario one.

So basically there are two possibilities:
1) Small Mario = Normal Mario, Small Mario + Super Mushroom = Giant Mario
2) Super Mario = Normal Mario, Normal Mario + damages = Small Mario
Nintendo is apparently going with the second possibility, even though Mario starts small even after a cutscene where he was tall. A third possibility opens:
3) Small Mario = Normal Mario, but Nintendo uses Super Mario for cutscenes because he looks better

But then we have the Super Smash Bros. series and - more importantly - Donkey Kong '94, where there's a fourth possibility:
4) Normal Mario = Normal Mario. Normal Mario + Poison Mushroom = Small Mario. Normal Mario + Super Mushroom = Super Mario

That one seems to be the most logical for me. Not to forget that applies to the 3D series too - Super Mario appears in Super Mario 64 DS and Small Mario appears in the upcoming Super Mario game.

But then what makes Mario small ? Not to forget that in Paper Mario Mario gets the "Small" state after being hit by a Hammer Bro.'s hammer.

Wait. A Hammer Bro. ?

My answer to this nonsense: magic. Or rather, dark magic. The Koopa Army is known to possess dark magic, but only Bowser and Magikoopas use it. What if all members of the army were allowed to have this kind of magic, once in a while ? When they damage Mario, they also use their dark magic to make him small. As for Poison Mushrooms, generally all power-ups are magic, and if a Super Mushroom's magic is good then a Poison Mushroom's magic should be bad.

Now it all makes sense. Depending of the occasion (mainly when Bowser really doesn't want Mario to progress further - in SMG and SMG2, he thinks he's strong enough, and actually wants Mario to come so that he could beat him), Bowser gives some dark magic powers to his army. As for when he starts a level as Small Mario although the previous cutscene showed him as being Super Mario... in GBA SMB3, it was because he entered Grass Land - which was entirely covered by dark magic, except for the castle and Toad Houses because these areas are closed. And in NSMBW he may have been hit by some dark magic while running after the Airship.


Your thoughts ? I'm not taking this seriously by the way.

[1up]

For you to not be taking this seriously, you sure did write a lot... >_>

Anyway, I've always thought that the whole "Small Mario and Super Mario" thing was just a visual representation of Mario's health, before Health Meters were invented. The whole concept just stuck around because it was so iconic and unique.

[kingkoopa]

It was really the only way to show that Mario took damage. I think Big Mario is the real one. Evidence? Big Mario is slightly smaller than Peach, which is his official height. Not only that, but haven't you seen that even though Big Mario has big in his name, he really isn't "big" at all. About 5ft 1in to be exact. That is a pretty small height, and it doesn't sound humanly possible for a grown human to be half that size. (Okay, its possible, but very unlikely. And Mario really doesn't show signs of dwarfism)

[Koopalmier]

I also thought this, but Donkey Kong '94 takes it seriously, and the concept will appear in the next Super Mario game. It was in Paper Mario too.

Here are the key facts:
- there are three forms: normal, giant and small.
- Mario becomes small after eating a Poison Mushroom, being attacked by a member of the Koopa Troop (not always) or just starts a level like that without explanation.
- small Mario is weaker than normal Mario.
So it makes sense for me that Mario's "smallness" is due to the Koopa Troop's dark magic.

[kingkoopa]

It does make sense I guess. I mean, I really can't find a better explanation.

[Sarisa]

*shrug* Again, I can't think of a better explanation.

Running with the idea, since it appears to affect whole areas rather than Mario in particular (since, as you said, he starts each level small), the spell might be the reason for the lack of civilians wherever Bowser invades. It might be a spell especially designed to damage Toads - perhaps it turns them into parts of the landscape? - that has the side effect of weakening humans on exposure. It's naturally strongest in strategic areas (read: levels), so Mario has to hurry through before exposure kills him. Hence the timer.

(This explanation completely fails to explain why Mario doesn't gradually lose power-ups as he goes through levels except through taking damage. It's maaaagic.)

[Koopalmier]

I think the timer has no explanation though - it's just so that you do hurry up because it's an action game, you're not supposed to take a pause. Plus how would Mario know how many time is left ?

There's also something that makes Mario small - ANYTHING that can hurt. If he dies, he'll come back as Small Mario (but considerin the idea he already died or even Game Over'd is not canon, it could just be a penalty the games gives you) and if he hits a iron ball, he'll go small. Maybe that when the dark magic covers a whole area, it's like if anyone who did already have this kind of magic would be affected by it.

And that's a great theory, Sarisa. But I rather think it explains why people don't appear in platformers outside of their house because they don't want to be affected by the dark magic.

[Koopalmier]

Oh, wait, I forgot something. Tatanga's minions (and Wario's minions) can also make Mario small, and Mario himself made Wario small in SML2 and Wario would become small due to ennemies in Wario Land and Virtual Boy Wario Land.

My theory:
- SML: Tatanga's army uses dark magic too (they are aliens after all).
- SML2: Again, Wario makes uses of dark magic in that game, so it'd make sense his army can too.
As for Wario, maybe that the problem comes from himself. When he's hit too hard, his own dark magic acts on himself and hurts him. Maybe that's why he doesn't have hypnotizing powers and all since Wario Land 2, he could have got rid of that magic.

[Sarisa]

So Wario learned the spell from Bowser (or stole/reverse-engineered it himself), and taught it to Tatanga? It makes more sense than any other in-game explanation I've heard.

[Koopalmier]

... Someone says what I said makes sense ? I'm so happy ! : D

[Vent]

Maybe it's some sort of alien technology at Tatanga's disposal.

Whatever the source is, we at least agree that Mario's small state is not his natural state, right?

[Koopalmier]

Yes, I think. It was probably is natural state back in the 80's but that changed since Super Mario RPG at least.

[rhinotaur]

Except in Mario Galaxy. Mario there is just about the same size as the Goombas.

[Sarisa]

But they're Goombas IN SPACE! Thus they can be really big.

[Koopalmier]

SMG and SMG2 went back to the original idea of small Mario = normal Mario. Thus everything and everyone is bigger. I guess it's to give the feeling of how everything around you (i.e. space) is gigantic, if not infinite.

And, going with the idea that NSMBW happens short before SMG starts, did you notice how big Bowser is during NSMBW's post-credits scene ? It's his SMG size, actually. Maybe that's an after-effect of his gigantism due to Kamek's magic. Maybe that gave him the idea to make his whole army giant for his next plan. Well, that's just my idea. However, it's obvious Nintendo did the in-game "hidden" explanation just so that it makes more sense, as even BLOCKS are bigger than usual.

[kingkoopa]

Yeah, that can't be Small Mario in the Galaxy games since he only a little smaller than Peach. Bowser must have made everything bigger... or something like that.

[Vent]

You know, Goombas CAN come in various sizes. There's Micro-Goombas and Mega Goombas, The Notorious Goomba Bros. are slightly larger than a normal Goomba, etc.

[kingkoopa]

It isn't just the Goombas though. Every single object in the game looks bigger.

[Le Mario Bro]

I think he means Goombas as an example, King.

[kingkoopa]

That's KK to you...

...

it didn't seem like he meant it as an example though. But anyways, we can all agree that the Mario in the Glaxy games is not Small Mario. Right?