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Post by Dr. Mechano on Aug 16, 2010 9:58:43 GMT -5
Ah, Wario Land: Super Mario Land III. A fun game starring my favorite character in the series, that rotten rapscallion, Wario! But today I'd like to draw everyone's attention to a disturbing trend in recent Wario outings- That trend being that our dear friend Wario has become inexplicably poor in recent outings.
You remember the multiple endings, right? Wario would receive a birdhouse, log cabin, pagoda, castle, or the moon depending on the player's performance in collecting treasure and coins. Regardless, we can all agree the "canon" ending was the one in which Wario receives his much envied castle.
All's well and good so far. Virtual Boy Wario Land didn't take place anywhere near the castle, so its absence is excusable. But in Wario Land II, we see the castle in all its glory, as Syrup and her cronies try to take it over. Due to being set in other locales, the castle is absent in the third and forth installments of the series as well, but we're to assume it still exists- An assumption that proves right, as Wario's castle is present in the Gamecube platformer Wario World.
And here's where things get complicated.
Our next outing is WarioWare: Mega Microgames, where Wario isn't depicted as an eccentric and rich- yet nonetheless still greedy- treasure hunter, but a middle class or perhaps even poor fellow who lives in an ordinary house in Diamond City. Pay close attention, folks, because this new residence will be revisited time and time again, even in the platformer series.
A return to platforming saw Wario: Master of Disguise, where again Wario is depicted as living in his humble abode. The opening narration even plainly says "Wario still isn't rich." When did THIS happen? The stretch from Wario Land II all the way to Wario World depicted Wario as one of the Mushroom World's wealthiest characters, owning a castle loaded with treasures, yet nonetheless absolutely driven to steal even MORE to fuel his unyielding greed. Yet now we're told that he still- implying he already wasn't- isn't rich.
This continues through the other WarioWare games and to Wario Land: Shake It! as well.
My question is as follows: What happened to Wario's castle and his hoards of treasure?
One hypothesis is that when Wario's castle got destroyed in Wario World, the "canon" ending is actually the bad ending, where Wario's castle isn't restored, and the thief is left homeless. Still, this explanation seems weak, as the canon ending in games with multiple endings is almost invariably the "good" ending. It would seem silly for the canon result to be Wario failing to reclaim his castle.
So I open the floor for discussion: What happened to Wario's wealth? Let the theories abound!
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Post by cheat-master30 on Aug 16, 2010 10:16:37 GMT -5
To be fair, he becomes rich again in Wario Land Shake It, see what happens when you collect all the treasure.
He's also more middle class than poor. Indeed, considering the game writers are Japanese, Wario's House is probably on the top end of the market, especially in a culture where a house bigger than a small apartment is probably seen as 'rich'. It'd be about a standard middle class house in the UK too.
But that said, it's probably how WarioWare is likely a different setting than that of the Wario Land series, maybe alternate universe. Mundane explanation would be that his WarioWare house is a house in Diamond City, which is more local than his castle around Kitchen Island area.
He's still quite wealthy in Mario spinoffs as well. Wario's Gold Mine anyone?
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Post by SMBBQ on Aug 16, 2010 10:24:04 GMT -5
Since I believe Diamond City is on Kitchen Island, I can't agree with you cheat-master. However, it seems easiest to believe that the bad ending of Wario World would be the canon one.
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Post by Dr. Mechano on Aug 16, 2010 10:27:54 GMT -5
But that said, it's probably how WarioWare is likely a different setting than that of the Wario Land series, maybe alternate universe. Mundane explanation would be that his WarioWare house is a house in Diamond City, which is more local than his castle around Kitchen Island area. I'd considered that, but I have two slight nagging issues that prevent me from totally accepting that theory. 1.) I believe WarioWare is set in the same continuity as the Wario platformer series, and to that extent the mainstream Mario series. I have a number of reasons to support this. 1-A.) Diamond City appears as a track in Mario Kart Arcade GP. 1-B.) Wario Factory from Mario Power Tennis features an image of Wario in his WarioWare outfit in the background. The implication is, perhaps, (though not directly stated) that Wario Factory is where WarioWare's games are mass-produced. The WarioWare "Wario Bomb" emblem can also be seen. 1-C.) Wario's house from Master of Disguise seems clearly based on the one from the WarioWare series. It's not as strong a connection as the first two, but I think it counts for something. 1-D.) One final point is that in WarioWare, Wario being a treasure hunter is part of his backstory. You could feasibly argue that if the Wario of WarioWare is an alternate canon counterpart, he could still have been a treasure hunter, but I interpret this as a clear and intentional reference to his platforming series, confirming he's indeed the same character from the same story. Problematically, this leads into my second point... 2.) "Wario still isn't rich."If there was any doubt on Wario's financial status before, Master of Disguise settled it with its opening narration. Wario's not only not rich, but the use of the word "still" implies he already wasn't before this, likely a reference to Wario's up-and-down inconsistent finances in the WarioWare games. As for Shake It, he does get lots of money, but Syrup absconds with it at the last minute, leaving our greedy good-for-nothing back at square one, rendering his exploits altogether pointless (An infuriating trend, as Master of Disguise also ends with Wario almost- but not quite- striking it rich). Is there a different ending when you collect all the treasure, in which Wario actually keeps his prize? If so, I wasn't aware of that, and would like to see it. If so, it would be interesting to see how well that carries over into the next game, if at all.
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Post by cheat-master30 on Aug 16, 2010 10:36:43 GMT -5
No, when he gets the treasure, he ends up with a solid gold garage and fancy treasures that don't go anywhere from what I can tell.
But my point about his wealth isn't that WarioWare Wario isn't the same as Wario Land Wario (although some others here believe that), but that he doesn't generally bring over his riches to Diamond City.
Maybe it just makes him look... I dunno, slightly weird to have a massive castle in the more down to Earth seeming WarioWare series. Remember, things in Mario do just forget to be mentioned. Nothing happened to Mario's Castle in Mario Land 2, he just doesn't use it, and every other house he's got is only in one or two games.
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Post by Dr. Mechano on Aug 16, 2010 10:43:53 GMT -5
Maybe it just makes him look... I dunno, slightly weird to have a massive castle in the more down to Earth seeming WarioWare series. The WarioWare series is the embodiment of "weird." It's far zanier than traditional Mario fare, and that's saying something. In fact, in the very first WarioWare game, Diamond City features a traditional Japanese-styled castle in Kat's and Ana's story! I'm not arguing that Wario's castle should be conveniently moved to Diamond City, but I would say that it would hardly stand out as unusual in a city that already features a castle, a haunted mansion, an ancient temple, evil biker pizza guys, a mad scientist laboratory, and a plethora of other bizarre things. Regardless, even if his Diamond City house could be considered a second home (Assuming his castle still exists in an undisclosed location, likely somewhere on Kitchen Island), we're left with the problematic declaration of the in-game text that Wario isn't wealthy at all, or at least wasn't at the time of the events of Master of Disguise. This carries with it the implication that Wario's castle is gone, and I'd like a better explanation than "The writers forgot about it." Of course, that probably is exactly what happened, but it's still fun to theorize, I suppose...
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Post by cheat-master30 on Aug 16, 2010 10:57:50 GMT -5
True, but I meant 'down to Earth' as in, the setting itself is slightly less weird than Mario. The events and characters are stranger, but there aren't giant Mushrooms and floating blocks in Diamond City.
I'm not arguing that Wario's castle should be conveniently moved to Diamond City, but I would say that it would hardly stand out as unusual in a city that already features a castle, a haunted mansion, an ancient temple, evil biker pizza guys, a mad scientist laboratory, and a plethora of other bizarre things.
True. Although whether WarioWare or Wario Land is weirder is up for debate. Fiery Cavern is quite a bit weirder than the above, don't you think? As is the very final chapter in Wario Land 2.
But you're right, the castle probably wouldn't stand out.
we're left with the problematic declaration of the in-game text that Wario isn't wealthy at all, or at least wasn't at the time of the events of Master of Disguise.
Master of Disguise is a bit of a spinoff itself. Neither Wario Land or WarioWare generally accept it as part of the same series, and it was made by a party who's never made a past Wario game. So some textual inaccuracies are probably to be expected, especially as Nintendo likely didn't think about the story much.
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Post by Koopalmier on Aug 16, 2010 12:23:39 GMT -5
I thought that, at the end of Wario Land, Wario got his own planet, not just the Moon. A planet is far more habitable than the Moon, anyway. It's unknow how did Syrup got to Wario's planet, or how Wario could travel between the Mushroom World and his own planet. But the strange size of the Sun in Wario World lets to believe the game actually happens in the sky of Wario's planet (that may be closer to the Sun). Then the world becomes blank in the ending, and since then Wario seemingly lives on the Mushroom World. My guess is that the explosion of the Black Jewel annihilated Wario's planet, and Waior's new castle was made on the Mushroom World.
However I have multiple reasons to think the WarioWare series is separate from the Mushroom World. - Wario appears as a (almost) COMPLETELY DIFFERENT character. - Mario is a video game character. - The used money in Diamond City is the dollar. However it's unsure if Diamond City is American or Japanese. I know it's also the case for Wario: Master of Disguise, but the money is actually changed in each version of the game (dollars in the US version, euros in the EU version, yens in the JAP version) so we can say the "actual" money is not shown. And it all happens in a TV anyway. - Earth is shown. Multiple times. - Heck, the whole series looks more like it's set on Earth than on the Mushroom World. - Wario Land 4 is heavily linked to the WarioWare series, however it may simply mean that it's canon in both the WarioWare universe and the Wario Land universe.
The Wario Factory from Mario Power Tennis is actually a Bob-Omb factory too. It's more like a WarioWare tribute than anything.
I think the most important thing to wonder is: where did Wario's Castle go ? After Wario World, even if you don't count the WarioWare series, Wario's Castle still disappeared and got replaced by a not-too-special house. Plus Wario still continued to be richer after that (Wario's Gold Mine). The thing we can be sure of is that, sometime between Wario World and Wario: Master of Disguise, Wario lost his castle. ... Maybe that he refused to pay taxes, so the governement took his properties ?
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Post by Artemendo on Aug 16, 2010 14:11:19 GMT -5
The amount of theorization going on here is breaking my scouter!
But... let's get away from the innate Mushroom Kingdom order of things and look at the real world. There are plenty of people out there who are adventurous entrepreneurs. They can have an amazingly successful franchise one month and be completely broke from investing in a shady scammer the next. Wario is exactly that type of guy. I think he stumbles into very many deals in his daily life, and some of them went so wrong he lost a big part of his treasure in them. So, no matter how much money he has at any certain point in the games, it might double or be all gone the next. Wario loves money, but he also loves doing things with money.
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Post by shadowgoomba on Aug 16, 2010 14:19:13 GMT -5
Couldn't the games where he has a castle just appear chronologically after the ones where he doesn't?
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Post by Artemendo on Aug 16, 2010 14:26:33 GMT -5
That's almost too simple. Buut... he got a lot of treasure, say, in Wario Land 3, and Wario Ware takes place after that and he's poor. However, it's also not the first Wario Ware game, so I guess Wario just stays not-too-rich no matter how much money his games make (maybe most of the money goes to the supporting characters).
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Post by shadowgoomba on Aug 16, 2010 14:28:40 GMT -5
Who's to say Wario Ware takes place after Wario Land 3?
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Post by Artemendo on Aug 16, 2010 14:33:34 GMT -5
This screen: Also, it's even after Wario Land 4.
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Post by Koopalmier on Aug 16, 2010 14:41:24 GMT -5
Actually I'll go with my theory that Wario Land and WarioWare are separate, and Wario keeps losing stuff in Wario Land because he doesn't want to pay taxes.
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Post by Artemendo on Aug 16, 2010 14:46:40 GMT -5
Can you give me an example of anyone mentioning taxes in Mario games? I think there were really few examples, if any...
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Post by Koopalmier on Aug 16, 2010 14:52:44 GMT -5
The Mario world is based on our's. Until more explanation, we should consider it is similar to our's. There's even the same earth warming problem (as you learn from *cough* the crows in Paper Mario 2). Plus Wario losing his stuff because of his greed fits the character.
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Post by Artemendo on Aug 16, 2010 14:56:58 GMT -5
Yeah, but losing his stuff because of wrong investment fits him much more than always making the same mistake of not paying taxes over and over again! Wario has some bad judgment, but he's not that stupid. I doubt he would lose several adventures' treasureworth on that.
Also, the crows are obviously joke characters. They are inconsistent with everything else in the Marioverse, and the only ones who mention the plot do it in a break-the-fourth-wall way.
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Post by shadowgoomba on Aug 16, 2010 15:48:06 GMT -5
This screen: Also, it's even after Wario Land 4. Oh, okay. Well, who's to say Wario's rich in WL3 or 4 then? It doesn't really say either way to my knowledge.
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Post by cheat-master30 on Aug 16, 2010 15:51:27 GMT -5
The fact he drives back in a hover car with about a big sack of treasure and cash stowed in the back might be a clue, right? www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAYWl8dHeVoAnd remember, he keeps those 16 treasure chests with treasure in as far as I can tell.
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Post by Artemendo on Aug 16, 2010 15:54:09 GMT -5
I can't really remember how much money Wario's taken home at the end of WL3, but at the end of WL4, he has 12 solid gold artifacts and 180000 coins (10000 per level (Gold Crown) for 18 levels). That's a lot! And yet he seems to be able to blow it all away.
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