Post by Banzai Bill on Mar 6, 2016 12:05:29 GMT -5
I used to say no, but Paper Jam definitely challenges my original thought.
I've been thinking a lot about the implications that Paper Jam makes on Mariology. I guess I can see three different ways to understand the multiple universes:
1. The 'paper' world and the 'fleshy' world are completely different dimensions. This would mean that all of the Paper Mario adventures take place in this separate dimension within the book (like Paper Mario, The Thousand-Year Door, etc.) while all the other Mario RPGs (like Legend of the Seven Stars, Superstar Saga, etc.) all take place in the “real” world. I don't like this theory. For one, we've seen non-paper versions of characters and locations that originated in the Paper Mario series. Dry Dry Desert has been in Mario Kart. The Star Spirits were in Mario Party 5. The Goomba King/Goomboss has been in a few non-Paper Mario games also. But the real big issue I have is with the references. Paper Mario was referenced in the block museum of Superstar Saga. Chuckola Cola and the Beanbean Kingdom were referenced in The Thousand-Year Door. The Mario Party and Mario sports series were referenced in Luigi's diary in Paper Mario. The Mario Kart series was referenced by Luigi in The Thousand-Year Door. It all just feels like a single, coherent world; it doesn't feel right to just divide them into two separate universes. Not only that, but there is an important link between Superstar Saga and The Thousand-Year Door. Bowser can reference Popple in Poshely Heights. This means that Paper Bowser has at least some remembrance or remnants of memory regarding his amnesia and of his time serving as Popple's rookie in Superstar Saga. This means that there must be some shared history between the “paper” and “real” dimensions. But I can't just ignore the events of Paper Jam. So another idea is…
2. The 'paper' dimension and the 'fleshy' dimension used to be one, but have split into two different timelines. We know that the first two Paper Mario games must have taken place in the “real” world because of the reoccurring characters and references. After all, at the end of the first Paper Mario, Herringway says that he wrote the adventure into a book called Paper Mario. It could make sense to say that the adventure still happened in the real world and that the book from Paper Jam is Herringway's novel. This would also mean that The Thousand-Year Door happened in the “real” world since that one Rogueport Toad author (whose name escapes me—I'm a terrible fan) also wrote that adventure into a book. So the question lies in where the universes would split. After all, in The Thousand-Year Door it wasn't like Mario was literally made out of paper; he had to use curses to bend and fold himself. So when did Paper Mario become literal? Probably not Super Paper Mario since Mario needed a Pixel to be able to 'flatten' himself and squeeze into tight places. Maybe it was…Sticker Star. There were descriptions in the Sticker Museum where Toads described water as a dangerous substance (or something along those lines). If that's the case, then maybe one of the Paper Mario authors (either Herringway or that one Rogueport Toad or some unseen author) wrote the adventure of Super Paper Mario down and it somehow became another universe. Maybe he or she wrote it on magical paper or something that would essentially create a new dimension. This would mean that while the first three Paper Mario games have histories in both the 'fleshy' and the 'paper' dimensions, the 'paper' dimension became a reality of its own and started having adventures not dependent on the 'fleshy' dimension (ergo, Sticker Star). That would also explain why Paper Peach doesn't know who Starlow is—the split in the timeline would have occurred after Super Paper Mario, but before Bowser's Inside Story where (a theoretical Paper) Peach would have met Starlow. The problem I'm seeing with this theory is that it would mean that Bowser's Inside Story never happened in the 'paper' dimension. We already know that there's a paper Beanbean Kingdom with paper versions of Beanish people. Would this mean that Fawful is still alive, in paper form? And that he's still planning his revenge? But, it hasn't happened yet in the paper dimension? I don't know; I find it hard to believe that Paper Fawful would be still waiting or planning or being inactive like that.
3. The 'paper' dimension and the 'fleshy' dimension follow the same timeline/events. This would mean that the events of the original Paper Mario took place in the 'real' world and that Herringway wrote these events into the history of the 'paper' world. And so each adventure would take place in two timelines, essentially making the two histories the same. There may be some differences between the two histories, such as the way Mario fell of the veranda in Goomba Village or how lethal do Toads consider water. But essentially, they would be the same timeline with the possibility of slight differences. There would be 'fleshy' Bowser's Inside Story happening in one and 'paper' Bowser's Inside Story happening in the other. There would be 'fleshy' Super Mario 3D World happening in one and 'paper' Super Mario 3D World happening in the other. And etc., etc., etc. As for Paper Peach not recognizing Starlow, we have to explain that with fanon—Paper Peach, being so unused to purely spherical objects, at first couldn't recognize the non-paper version of Starlow.
Right now, I'm leaning towards theory three. But maybe I should wait until I play through Color Splash. If that game has something that indicates a literal interpretation of the papery qualities of the characters, then it may be problematic to imagine a 'fleshy' version of Color Splash happening in the 'real' world. Theory number two may also work. We'll see.
Any thoughts? Theories of your own?
I've been thinking a lot about the implications that Paper Jam makes on Mariology. I guess I can see three different ways to understand the multiple universes:
1. The 'paper' world and the 'fleshy' world are completely different dimensions. This would mean that all of the Paper Mario adventures take place in this separate dimension within the book (like Paper Mario, The Thousand-Year Door, etc.) while all the other Mario RPGs (like Legend of the Seven Stars, Superstar Saga, etc.) all take place in the “real” world. I don't like this theory. For one, we've seen non-paper versions of characters and locations that originated in the Paper Mario series. Dry Dry Desert has been in Mario Kart. The Star Spirits were in Mario Party 5. The Goomba King/Goomboss has been in a few non-Paper Mario games also. But the real big issue I have is with the references. Paper Mario was referenced in the block museum of Superstar Saga. Chuckola Cola and the Beanbean Kingdom were referenced in The Thousand-Year Door. The Mario Party and Mario sports series were referenced in Luigi's diary in Paper Mario. The Mario Kart series was referenced by Luigi in The Thousand-Year Door. It all just feels like a single, coherent world; it doesn't feel right to just divide them into two separate universes. Not only that, but there is an important link between Superstar Saga and The Thousand-Year Door. Bowser can reference Popple in Poshely Heights. This means that Paper Bowser has at least some remembrance or remnants of memory regarding his amnesia and of his time serving as Popple's rookie in Superstar Saga. This means that there must be some shared history between the “paper” and “real” dimensions. But I can't just ignore the events of Paper Jam. So another idea is…
2. The 'paper' dimension and the 'fleshy' dimension used to be one, but have split into two different timelines. We know that the first two Paper Mario games must have taken place in the “real” world because of the reoccurring characters and references. After all, at the end of the first Paper Mario, Herringway says that he wrote the adventure into a book called Paper Mario. It could make sense to say that the adventure still happened in the real world and that the book from Paper Jam is Herringway's novel. This would also mean that The Thousand-Year Door happened in the “real” world since that one Rogueport Toad author (whose name escapes me—I'm a terrible fan) also wrote that adventure into a book. So the question lies in where the universes would split. After all, in The Thousand-Year Door it wasn't like Mario was literally made out of paper; he had to use curses to bend and fold himself. So when did Paper Mario become literal? Probably not Super Paper Mario since Mario needed a Pixel to be able to 'flatten' himself and squeeze into tight places. Maybe it was…Sticker Star. There were descriptions in the Sticker Museum where Toads described water as a dangerous substance (or something along those lines). If that's the case, then maybe one of the Paper Mario authors (either Herringway or that one Rogueport Toad or some unseen author) wrote the adventure of Super Paper Mario down and it somehow became another universe. Maybe he or she wrote it on magical paper or something that would essentially create a new dimension. This would mean that while the first three Paper Mario games have histories in both the 'fleshy' and the 'paper' dimensions, the 'paper' dimension became a reality of its own and started having adventures not dependent on the 'fleshy' dimension (ergo, Sticker Star). That would also explain why Paper Peach doesn't know who Starlow is—the split in the timeline would have occurred after Super Paper Mario, but before Bowser's Inside Story where (a theoretical Paper) Peach would have met Starlow. The problem I'm seeing with this theory is that it would mean that Bowser's Inside Story never happened in the 'paper' dimension. We already know that there's a paper Beanbean Kingdom with paper versions of Beanish people. Would this mean that Fawful is still alive, in paper form? And that he's still planning his revenge? But, it hasn't happened yet in the paper dimension? I don't know; I find it hard to believe that Paper Fawful would be still waiting or planning or being inactive like that.
3. The 'paper' dimension and the 'fleshy' dimension follow the same timeline/events. This would mean that the events of the original Paper Mario took place in the 'real' world and that Herringway wrote these events into the history of the 'paper' world. And so each adventure would take place in two timelines, essentially making the two histories the same. There may be some differences between the two histories, such as the way Mario fell of the veranda in Goomba Village or how lethal do Toads consider water. But essentially, they would be the same timeline with the possibility of slight differences. There would be 'fleshy' Bowser's Inside Story happening in one and 'paper' Bowser's Inside Story happening in the other. There would be 'fleshy' Super Mario 3D World happening in one and 'paper' Super Mario 3D World happening in the other. And etc., etc., etc. As for Paper Peach not recognizing Starlow, we have to explain that with fanon—Paper Peach, being so unused to purely spherical objects, at first couldn't recognize the non-paper version of Starlow.
Right now, I'm leaning towards theory three. But maybe I should wait until I play through Color Splash. If that game has something that indicates a literal interpretation of the papery qualities of the characters, then it may be problematic to imagine a 'fleshy' version of Color Splash happening in the 'real' world. Theory number two may also work. We'll see.
Any thoughts? Theories of your own?
