Interesting possibility about Subcon and the like?

[cheat-master30]

That Subcon, and arguably the area of Koholint in Link's Awakening are only technically the dream of one individual each.

Indeed, considering all the creatures and characters living in these dream worlds, my guess is that it's not only Mario and the Wind Fish's nightmare, but also the nightmares of the characters within these dream worlds. Your worst nightmares literally become reality within these (this? Might be the same according to someone here) worlds.

So Wart didn't intend to have vegetables in his arena, they're just generated because the machine isn't 'biased' to the whims of one party, and brought to life Wart's nightmares just like Mario and the other characters. The normal enemies might be species Mario encountered when younger, especially from his childhood (Shy Guys, Snifits, Pidgits, etc).

The bosses like aren't a coincidence either, Mario has arguably met all of them bar Wart in the 'real world' as well as Subcon, according to spinoff media.

And the setting of Link's Awakening might be part of the same, and work the same way. The final boss and many enemies of course are the fears of Link, and they're almost all things he encountered in the earlier Zelda series. And things like the Mario characters? They might be the fears of other characters, heck, the Mario alike may well be the fear of Wart (who reappeared as Mamu).

Possible?

[Artemendo]

Sorry for the first reply being kind of off-topic, but this is exactly what I mean by "diachronic canon": canon that alters itself so something can be true in the past, but untrue now; unlike traditional retcons. As you know, just after SMB2 was released, all enemies inside were new, so your current argument would have been impossible. It's only through the designers liking these characters and deciding to reuse them that your theory could arise and the old one, arguably the INTENDED one, became nonsense.

But it also being Wart's nightmare is a great explanation of that machine, which is only SLIGHTLY less stupid in terms of helping item placement than the axe behind Bowser's bridge.

[cheat-master30]

Yeah, Bowser's bridge having the axe is up to plain stupid design on the building team's part, but this would explain the issue with the vegetables in Wart's throne room.

all enemies inside were new, so your current argument would have been impossible. It's only through the designers liking these characters and deciding to reuse them that your theory could arise and the old one, arguably the INTENDED one, became nonsense.

True. Although with Nintendo, I doubt an intended explanation existed other than 'we wanted a different game than the Lost Levels, so we changed graphics for Doki Doki Panic'.

[Artemendo]

Nintendo never intendo (haha) to reuse any characters from SMB2 due to it being "not a true Mario game" in the first place, but then they changed their mind. So the canon explanation at that time was "Mario descends into a dream world and fights creatures exclusive to this world because it's a dream! Then he wakes up and never goes back."

[Koopalmier]

I know it's off-topic, but the axe behind Bowser was most likely Bowser's urgence plan: cutting the bridge with the axe, and letting Mario or Luigi fall in the lava. Obviously, it didn't went that right.

Subcon could be Wart's nightmare: he rules a kingdom by imprisoning its inhabitants, and he gets elite soldiers, but someone comes in and beat the hell out of him with the thing he fears worst - vegetables.

[Artemendo]

I already talked about that in a Coin Heaven guest article, the axe was supposed to be used like this:

[Sarisa]

That was done way back when in Captain SNES: www.captainsnes.com/2002/11/02/225-roys-realization-2/

Of course, it fails in a way that is very obvious to the viewer.

[SMBBQ]

I've always seen it as if there were an entire dimension that is only reached in dreams. I used this argument in the argument about the SSE, so you all know my views on it. Still, I hadn''t thought of it the way you described it, cheat-master.

[Vent]

If this game is any indication, then Subcon is indeed a real place, but probably exists primarily to create dreams. I've always figured that the machine in Wart's room was meant to create minions but it malfunctioned at the last minute and didn't have time to get it fixed..

[SMBBQ]

Like I said, Subcon, Koholint, and even the Smash World are real places, just so far down the Dimensional Axis you could only get there through dreams.

[Vent]

Subcon is probably easier to access though, seeing how there's a door that leads right to it in the Mushroom Kingdom.

[SMBBQ]

Where?

[Le Mario Bro]

It appears at the top of a random staircase whenever Mario takes a nap or goes on a picnic with his friends.

[SMBBQ]

I know you're joking, but that picnic turned out to be a dream itself anyway,so meh.

[Le Mario Bro]

I do that a lot.

With or without Mr. Chainsaw.

*BrRrRrRrRrRr*

Not now, I'm working...

---

Edit: Okay now that I think about it, I really haven't done much to contribute to discussions as of late. All I've been doing is making lame jokes and other stuff.

If this bothers you guys at all, I'll be happy to tone it down a bit.

[SMBBQ]

Aug 27, 2010 21:04:17 GMT -5 Le Mario Bro said:

I do that a lot.

Really? I could never tell.

*Phailed attempt at being funny goes over everyone's heads*

[kingkoopa]

I remember somewhere that several bosses and enemies were nightmares. Let me see what I can remember.

Cobrat= Toad's nightmare (I guess this means that Tryclyde is his too)
Ninji= The nightmare of all NES players... an epic ninja character that isn't playable
Shy Guy: I would think that they would be Mario's. And I always thought of Shyguy's as cloaked Nightmare creatures. (NEVER LOOK UNDER THE MASK) The Shy guys Sniffits and Beezos could be a combination of Mario and Luigi's nightmares.
Mouser= Someone is afraid of mice... and a german accent

[Le Mario Bro]

Maybe it's Luigi's nightmare.

Go play Mario Power Tennis and come back to me.

...On a serious note, it may be the fact that Luigi got kidnapped by Kamek's Goonies that set it off. They sorta look like Koopa/Shyguy things.

[Vent]

...but there are Shy Guys IN Yoshi's Island.

So yeah, Wart and his army aren't nightmares. They're real beings. Wart's only mission is to make nightmares to put in people's heads (which is presumably what that machine in his room does. It even made his own nightmare come true: Vegetables) Didn't I make this clear earlier in the thread?

[Le Mario Bro]

No I know, I'm just saying that Kamek probably never thought to take Luigi out of the bag, so I'm sure the Goonies are all that he ever saw.