Super Mario Strikers?

[EpicGyllynn]

Canon or Non-Canon? Please state Why you believe this!

[Artemendo]

Well, I think it's exactly as canon as all the other sports games or the kart races. If you believe Bowser being completely friendly to everyone else is canon, then yes. If you think that's ridiculous, then no. I think the Mario Party series are the lowest bound of evilness that Bowser should have, i.e. more-or-less harmless pranks "just to be mean", but not outright great sportsmanship and equality with the other contestants. This is SO not Bowser.

[Koopalmier]

In the Mario sports game, he's not really friendly (as when he hurts someone in Mario Kart for instance, he'll have an evil laugh, or in the intros of Mario Golf: TT and Mario Power Tennis he's not nice yet still competes with the others). Those events are beneficial for him: he can train his physical skills, fight Mario even outside of physical battles, and have some fun. He definitely needs it, as he keeps losing usually. The Mario Party series' "canon" level is under zero though.

But the Mario Strikers series is definitely not canon. The characters are depicted very differently (Mario aggresive ? Peach "teasing" others ? Toads having fire powers ?), the universe is too violent and doesn't fit the Mario series' standard, and... well, it's like the other side of Mario Party. The Mario Party series is too cheesy and doesn't fit the Mario standard, the Mario Strikers series is too violent and doesn't fit the standard either.

[Artemendo]

Aug 9, 2010 15:31:37 GMT -5 Koopalmier said:

The Mario Party series' "canon" level is under zero though.

I agree with everything else, but why this? I find "Bowser spoils everyone's fun by invading party boards to steal their stars/coins" to be more believable than "Bowser and the others peacefully race on Donut Plains".

[Koopalmier]

Because instead of running to beat Bowser, they play with dice blocks then get teleported to another place somehow where they fight to death, then everything goes normal. And Earth is shown quite a few times, although it may only be a placeholder for the MW (like in MKWii).

And the only two stories that aren't too cheesy are MP4's and MPDS'.

EDIT: Wait, MP4's story is actually even worse. Because, you see, everyone has its birthday. At the same time. Plus the gifts representing their house is canon-destroying. Mario and Luigi live in the same house (and it isn't made of only one room), Peach lives in a castle (and it isn't made of only one room), etc.

[Artemendo]

Yeah, but that is the MECHANICS of the game! In our theorizing, we shouldn't confuse the mechanics and the morals/characters/story. Since it's a board game simulation, of course they throw dice. My point is, Bowser is simply meaner than the others in Mario Party, which is not the case in Mario Kart and other sports games. Of course, he's a bad villain in Mario Party, but just racing alongside Peach and not even batting an eye and, in general, not being the antagonist, make him a total joke in the sports games. This is why them professional reviewer people laugh at Bowser.

[Koopalmier]

So, in Mario Party, the game's main part (the dice block thing and mini-games) wouldn't be canon ?

[EpicGyllynn]

I think the Bowser in Sports Games thing is Canon. I mean the Mario Kart games could just take place after Games where they Team-Up(SMK after SMRPG, SMDD after PM:TTYD, MKWii after SPM, Etc.)! But for other Games I'd say Bowser is just just a Represtation of the Koopa Race. It would be Racist for tMK to exclude the Koopa's, but I'm sure the Factors Koopaier Listed have something to do with it!

[Meta Black Yoshi]

Lol, Mario Kart races aren't peaceful. They throw bomb-oms, shells, and other assorted items at each other, they blast each-other with bullet bills, run each-other of the road, and laugh the whole while.

I think EpicGyllynn makes a good point about the possibility of these sorts of events happening after those games where Mario and company team up with Bowser. After all, if you think about it, if they can be civil enough to work together cooperatively towards the same goal, it suddenly becomes more reasonable to assume that they might be able to compete against each other towards a goal in a semi-civil manor.

I haven't player Mario Strikers though so I can't really say anything about that game.

[Artemendo]

Maybe it's after they team up, yes. I have seen many timelines that place all kart and sports games at the very end "after Bowser made peace with the Mario Bros." However, Luigi mentions those things in Paper Mario, and that's when Bowser is at his most evil in the Paper Mario series. Also, they only team up against a greater bad guy, while there simply is no such bad guy in the sports games. I guess no matter how you slice it, something just won't fit.

Also, I mean peaceful as in, "Bowser doesn't do anything meaner than the other characters." Sure he blasts Mario with spiky shells, but Mario blasts Peach with blue shells, too.

[EpicGyllynn]

Well, if you watch the Intro to Mario Kart Wii, you can see Mario and Peach cooperating. So I'd imagine that Mario doesn't Blow Up the Princess, like I'm sure he doesn't shoot Fireballs at her in Super Smash Bros.(Even though SSE has pretty much Proven that neither her or Zelda had intentions of Competing)! Look at the End of SPM, Bowser joins the Heroes for Food in FlipSide, you mean to tell me he wouldn't Race Go-Karts with them? I find that hard to believe!

[Artemendo]

Even in the games where Bowser cooperates with Mario, he will attack him at any suitable moment. Like, what reason did he have to fight Mario in the Underwhere? None! They were still on a team. Still they fight, and I just find it so strange that he can play soccer, tennis, golf, race karts etc. without being more agressive than the others - again, I don't mean his "evil laugh" or anything, I mean he behaves like all other characters.

[Koopalmier]

Because if he's not docile, he'll get his *** kicked and get fired of the tournament.

[Artemendo]

But why would he want to participate instead of troublemaking, anyway? There are a couple of games that say "Bowser is really good at heart", but that's more like a joke ending, like in Mario DDR Mix when Dark Land LITERALLY TURNS INTO A GRASSY MEADOW. Bowser isn't evil-evil, but he certainly loves being mean, and making him "just another player", is, while fanservicey, taking away from his character. In my opinion, anyway.

[Koopalmier]

As I said, it's a good thing for Bowser.
1) He can fight Mario even outside of physical battles.
2) He can make troubles (Mario Kart) and get away with it.
3) He needs physical training.
4) He has a chance to prove he's better than Mario.
5) ... Fanservice.

If Bowser made trouble, he'd have some fun but he'd miss all those good things for him.
Plus he does make trouble in MG:TT and MPT - which are as canon as the Mario Kart games.

[EpicGyllynn]

Yeah in Toadstool Tour he blows up Wario, Waluigi and Himself. And in Power Tennis he ruins the Grand Championship in an attempt to defeat the Bros. while their Gaurd was down(Then probably Kidnap the Princess)!

[Koopalmier]

I think he hijacked the tournament's finale because he's been wanting to do that ever since Super Mario Kart. But he must have realized making trouble during sports events isn't a good thing for anyone, not even for him.

Also, I don't think he caused trouble to kidnap the princess because he could have done it the Bowser way (jumping on the field, taking the princess, running away) instead of manipulating Wario and Waluigi and throwing an assault on the Peach Dome.

[EpicGyllynn]

Aybe he got Smarter and decided to develop an Strategy that involves killing the Bros BEFORE he kidnapped the Princess... Or, more likely, Kamek or Kammy convinced him to think about what he was going to do rather than just using Brute Force, but, the One(err.. Two) flaw(s) with that Plan were Wario and Waluigi! And that's how Bowser failed his 1,000,000th Time!

[Koopalmier]

Bowser. Will. Never. Be. Smart. That's a rule of the universe.
Plus the attack was quite simple actually. Bowser didn't even used his army.

[EpicGyllynn]

I know, thats why I said it was more likely that Kamek convinced him to do something not so... Stupid...