Religion in the Marioverse

[kingkoopa]

We never did get to see all of the dimensions that Flipside was connected to

[EpicGyllynn]

Thats true, for all we Know, Flip/Flopside could be at the Heart of all Nintendo Franchises... But I'm guessing the Dimensions from SPM are just Sub-Dimensions!

[kingkoopa]

SPM was pretty complicated, but I think Merlon even said it in the game, that the dimensional gates that appeared only appeared because when the Pure Heart's were placed in their heart shaped wall thing, a tracking device would locate the dimension that the next Pure Heart was in and make a portal to it.

[EpicGyllynn]

Yeah, so FlipSide could be linked to places like Hyrule and the Real World as well!

[Koopalmier]

Why must every series be in a different world... ?
I mean, as long as they don't counterdict the others, we can say they are in the same world, right ?
At least it makes things easier.

Also, Flipside is only linked to 7 dimensions. Really. There are only 8 pure hearts, and 7 doors. It wasn't made for interdimensional travelling, you know.

[EpicGyllynn]

But.. Doesn't it say that Flip/FlopSide exist between Worlds? I'm pretty sure Merlon said that! But I may be Wrong...

[Artemendo]

I think Flipside is only connected to the eight worlds we saw in SPM, not more. Why else would there be ancient drawings of the whereabouts of all Pure Hearts in the Pits of 100 Trials? So, in a sense, it does exist between dimensions, but only between a couple of them.

As for religion, there are extremely many depictions of stars in any Mario game. If we take that as the equivalent of a real-world religious symbol like the cross, that'd be like crosses all over the place, on the wallpaper, on clothes etc. But then again, their religion is not really a "belief" since the Star Spirits actually exists, so I guess it makes sense to have that many... icons.

[Koopalmier]

Surprisingly enough, Birdo mentions God in M&L1.
I think that there are a few religions, but not many because, well, one of them is actually true. And considering the "gods" are living over the MK, it's no surprise you see stars everywhere.

[cheat-master30]

^Good point. If a certain religion is basically proved to be true in a fictional setting, it does really take away the incentive to believe in those that haven't been proven. Although to be fair, there are a lot of God equivalents in the Mario series.

[Koopalmier]

Many people still believe in an un-proven religion because humans are stupid, and the MW is based on Earth. Really, if someone found a way to prove God doesn't exist, I doubt the believers would stop believing. TBH, if someone proven Nintendo was an evil company trying to take over the world, I wouldn't stop loving Mario either.

Hey, Stars live over the MK, right ? Does that mean the Starfy series is set in the sea to the south of Toad Town ?

[EpicGyllynn]

Off Topic:
Well, besides most Mythologies, modern World Religion are possibly True. Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buhdism... One of them could very well be True!

[EpicGyllynn]

On Topic:
Heres my Theory on how all of the Religions of the Multiverse can be True: The Supreme Being, Lets call Him "The Allmighty"(Because I've got DQIX on my Mind), Creates the Realms, and appoints "Lesser Beings"(See:Demigod) to Watch over each One. In very few Realms does He directly Govern, mostly shaping the Realms indirectly through the Deities! These Deities Include:
-A Being who Governs the Star Spirits
(Mushroom Universe)

-The Golden Goddesses, and various Unnamed Deities
(Hyrule, Termina, Holodrum, etc.)

-The Grand Architect, Zenus
(The Protecterate, and Observatory)

-Two Unnamed Deities
(Xenoblade)

-Palutena, and (Formerly)Medusa
(Kid Icarus)

-Master Hand, and (Possibly)Crazy Hand
(World of Trophies)


Well, what do YOU think?


I repostef this just in case the Newer Members missed it!

[Sarisa]

I think we need to keep in mind that Mario was created in Japan, and in modern Japan religion doesn't have the same meaning it does in the US. Most Japanese don't think about religion much, and traditional Japanese religion centers on periodic festivals to honor and petition specific gods, personal shrine visits to communicate with the gods, and rites of passage. So even if Miyamoto thought about religion, he wouldn't add something like a church; the logical place for a temple to the stars is Star Hill, and that's established as open to the skies (like some of the most ancient Japanese shrines). Religion probably consists of individual Mushroom Kingdom denizens going on pilgrimages to Star Hill and making wishes, along with periodic festivals such as the one that opens SMG.

That, and the Mario series doesn't seem like it would benefit from the serious worldbuilding needed to set up religions. Mario is like a sitcom; there is enough worldbuilding to set up the main characters, and then whatever happens to them is resolved in each episode, except for the two-parter of M&L1 and M&L3.

Also, I don't put much trust in the grand unified Nintendoverse theories. There's enough leakage between the Mushroom Kingdom and Hyrule to support them being linked by some means (periodic warp pipe?) but the influence in each direction is very slight, not enough for the Golden Goddesses to interact with the Star Spirits.

[Koopalmier]

The "leakage" between the MK and Hyrule is made of cameos only. They are more fanservice or little references than anything else. You can collect a Star Bit in a Zelda game on the DS though.
And according to Super Paper Mario, the great creators of the everything are the Ancients but almost all of them got annihilated for multiple reasons. The Golden Goddesses could be Ancients, the Star Spirits could've been hired by the Ancients, and the Ancients most likely made the Star Rods to allow prayers and wishes to become true.

If it wasn't for things like the Star Shrine in Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time, the fact tea appears instead of coffee, and the direction of the circulation in Mushroom City (as seen in Mario Kart: Double Dash!! and Mario Kart Wii), I wouldn't even know the Mario series was Japanese. Really, it looks more like an American or European product. :/

[Sarisa]

Tea and driving on the left are also British.

But seriously, there are a fair number of Mario cameos in Hyrule, enough to build theories of there being a small, frail connection between MK and Hyrule - enough to bring over a large selection of basic Mario enemies living in pockets.

My head hurts less if they're taken as non-canon, though!

[Koopalmier]

What are the two "main" Mario cameos we've seen on Hyrule ? Posters and three or four species. Posters are automatically mere easter eggs, and both planets may share some species (like how Spinies and, err, that other orange Topman thing, are found on Pop Star).

And the Mushroom Kingdom doesn't feel very British... I think. But, yeah, taking those out, there's basically no way to know Mario is a Japanese series.

[EpicGyllynn]

Aug 18, 2010 18:26:35 GMT -5 Sarisa said:

I think we need to keep in mind that Mario was created in Japan, and in modern Japan religion doesn't have the same meaning it does in the US. Most Japanese don't think about religion much, and traditional Japanese religion centers on periodic festivals to honor and petition specific gods, personal shrine visits to communicate with the gods, and rites of passage. So even if Miyamoto thought about religion, he wouldn't add something like a church; the logical place for a temple to the stars is Star Hill, and that's established as open to the skies (like some of the most ancient Japanese shrines). Religion probably consists of individual Mushroom Kingdom denizens going on pilgrimages to Star Hill and making wishes, along with periodic festivals such as the one that opens SMG.

That, and the Mario series doesn't seem like it would benefit from the serious worldbuilding needed to set up religions. Mario is like a sitcom; there is enough worldbuilding to set up the main characters, and then whatever happens to them is resolved in each episode, except for the two-parter of M&L1 and M&L3.

Also, I don't put much trust in the grand unified Nintendoverse theories. There's enough leakage between the Mushroom Kingdom and Hyrule to support them being linked by some means (periodic warp pipe?) but the influence in each direction is very slight, not enough for the Golden Goddesses to interact with the Star Spirits.

Were you Replying to me?

[Sarisa]

EpicGyllynn: Yes.

Koopalmier: My jokes need work, obviously. And it's odd that the species common to Hyrule and the MK are not just the highly successful MK ones, but one that is not very successful in the MK and highly derived.

[EpicGyllynn]

I don't think the Golden Goddeses interact with the Star Spirits, but my theory attempts to explain how there can be multiple Deities who seem virtually unaware of each others existance.