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Post by Koopalmier on Nov 19, 2010 16:29:06 GMT -5
As in, what changes should they make ?
I personally think there are a couple things that should be done.
- Make a main series game with an actual plot and Bowser not being the villain. It'd still be a platformer, but it'd have a story. Obviously, it would only be for a single game.
- Make the series a bit more Japanese-like. Not that the Mushroom Kingdom must be like Japan or something, but it annoys me to see stuff like "This commercial is awful ! Mario is Italian, not Japanese ! How did Japan get their filthy hands on Mario ?" on Youtube, concerning Japanese commercials for Mario games. I don't know what they could do, but they should just give the feeling that the series is made in Japan.
- The series is usually epic for its action, but in SMG it's epic for its atmosphere (to compensate, there's only very little action). Nintendo should NEVER, EVER do that again.
- Explain once and for all the DK/DK Jr./Cranky Kong problem and why not say Mario's age.
So, what do you think should be done in futur Mario games ?
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Post by SMBBQ on Nov 19, 2010 17:10:02 GMT -5
1) I agree entirely
2) No, not at all. Part of the fun is that no Mario game doesn't "feel" American, British, French, or Japanese at all. Anybody can identify with the series, no matter their background.
3) I think a mix of action and atmosphere would be best, but that's my opinion.
4) That would take away the fun.
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Post by cheat-master30 on Nov 19, 2010 21:13:30 GMT -5
As in, what changes should they make ? I personally think there are a couple things that should be done. - Make a main series game with an actual plot and Bowser not being the villain. It'd still be a platformer, but it'd have a story. Obviously, it would only be for a single game. - Make the series a bit more Japanese-like. Not that the Mushroom Kingdom must be like Japan or something, but it annoys me to see stuff like "This commercial is awful ! Mario is Italian, not Japanese ! How did Japan get their filthy hands on Mario ?" on Youtube, concerning Japanese commercials for Mario games. I don't know what they could do, but they should just give the feeling that the series is made in Japan. - The series is usually epic for its action, but in SMG it's epic for its atmosphere (to compensate, there's only very little action). Nintendo should NEVER, EVER do that again. - Explain once and for all the DK/DK Jr./Cranky Kong problem and why not say Mario's age. So, what do you think should be done in futur Mario games ? 1. Part agree, although only if the plot is both skippable and not in your face cut scene heavy like Metroid Other M (aka don't copy Sakamoto). 2. Disagree. I like Mario is just 'generic' enough to not be tied to a specific culture. That's why it's so popular in general, because everyone feels Mario is both foreign and not foreign at the same time. The Mushroom World is awesome because it feels just as alien to someone in Japan as it does elsewhere. 3. Unsure. Both epic in style and action is probably best, but I do think recent games have been going way too far towards the epic end. Indeed, it's not just the Galaxy sub series, but also some of the RPGs that are a bit like this. Mario RPG might have gone a bit far to the 'dark' end of the scale, but oh boy, Mario and Luigi Partners in Time and Super Paper Mario have got to be the ultimate examples here. The former is so over the top that the linearity is basically railroading the player (have you ever known any RPGs in your life to have literally zero sidequests?) They did the last one. Rare did, they even said to ignore those that contradict them. As for my ideas... I think the best change would be to make sure every spinoff has a certain amount of... Mario flavouring to it. Really, when I think Mario, I think Mushroom Kingdom and familiar characters and settings, not generic 'cartoon' or Final Fantasy characters as playable. Best example of bad games in this regard would be the Strikers series and the GBA Mario Golf/Tennis games, as well as later Mario Party games, which just have nothing to do with Mario bar a few characters. All games should have that certain series style in my opinion, and certain things included (characters, music style, locations, enemies, items). |
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Post by Koopalmier on Nov 20, 2010 12:18:35 GMT -5
yay
Okay, then I'll say that differently. At least add a bit more of Japanese culture. The problem isn't that people see their own country in it, it's that they don't believe Mario - or even Nintendo - is a Japanese product.
We have the RPGs for that.
It's not really fun. It's rather confusing.
They should at least make a more interesting adventure than just "Mario goes through 8 random places and saves Peach from Bowser".
*same answer as for smbmaster*
I think it's rather good for the RPGs. It's completely not serious characters thrown into a dark story, resulting in something very interesting. Although SPM could indeed have more sidequests, the gameplay style kind of blocked that.
What did they say ?
I entirely agree. But that's because everyone ignores the RPGs (which, in my opinion, are what makes the Mario universe interesting). So they should rather stop ignoring the RPGs first.
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Post by 1up on Nov 20, 2010 13:17:29 GMT -5
Okay, then I'll say that differently. At least add a bit more of Japanese culture. The problem isn't that people see their own country in it, it's that they don't believe Mario - or even Nintendo - is a Japanese product. I don't really see that as being a serious problem in the Mario fandom. Anyone who has half a brain knows that Mario was created in Japan. I really don't want the Mushroom Kingdom to take on any type of culture. Like people have already said, it has a more universal quality if it's left somewhat ambiguous. I'm not completely satisfied with just that, though. The Sonic series continually manages to squeeze big storylines into its platforming titles. Why not Mario? |
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Post by Koopalmier on Nov 20, 2010 14:46:00 GMT -5
The WarioWare series already has a small Japanese feeling, yet it doesn't "kill" everything and doesn't base the series on a particular culture.
Super Mario Sunshine has more story than Sonic Colors. And the big storylines in Sonic are justely one of the things that are hurting the current series.
I'm talking about a Mario game that'd have only a bit more story than Super Mario Sunshine. SMS is a great exemple of a Mario game with a story.
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Post by cheat-master30 on Nov 20, 2010 15:46:32 GMT -5
The WarioWare series already has a small Japanese feeling, yet it doesn't "kill" everything and doesn't base the series on a particular culture. Super Mario Sunshine has more story than Sonic Colors. And the big storylines in Sonic are justely one of the things that are hurting the current series. I'm talking about a Mario game that'd have only a bit more story than Super Mario Sunshine. SMS is a great exemple of a Mario game with a story. For the thing about the Cranky Kong relation, they said something like 'if a game contradicts our word in this article (can't remember what it was), put your fingers in your ears and hum loudly (aka, ignore it completely). As for story, I disagree. Trust me, Sonic as a series is basically being killed by Sega developers trying to be freaking movie directors and shoehorning it grand seeming plots. Plus, it's nice to have a game which doesn't have much plot, as I personally thought Sunshine's story stopped many taking it seriously and Galaxy 1's story was honestly a waste of time (not joking here, next person to talk about how tragic Rosalina was will get me saying how tragic it was Bleck destroyed Sammer's Kingdom. I hate this double standard how apparently it's worse for one known character to be destroyed that for an entire universe to be destroyed, the whole million is a statistic rubbish. That and I really, really think Rosalina is overrated and doesn't live up to the fanboy hype). But I guess it depends what you mean by more story. New villain, fine, as long as they're well designed. A villain like Smithy/Shadow Queen/Fawful/Dimentio/Dark Star would be quite cool, but make sure they're somewhat menacing. Don't give us boring rubbish like Terrormisu, Black Jewel (Wario Land), Bellum, Malladus (Spirit Tracks) or some of the recent Kirby villains. If they're well thought out, look sufficiently evil and have some character to them, a new villain is okay. If they're just a lame nobody conjured up for one game like Bellum from Phantom Hourglass, you'd probably be better off using Bowser. More plot in the way of cut scenes everywhere... No, sorry, bad idea. More plot in the way of Final Fantasy lite... definitely not. If I see another fan made Mario plot where it turns out Bowser is really some minor villain and the big bad is Mr I'm completely generic anime Evil Overlord type from hell who's based on alternate dimension X, I will slam my head into a wall. ^ Although it's slightly better than making the final boss be the creator of the game. Really, the day I see Nintendo have added a giant Miyamoto boss as the real villain is when I know the Mario series has gone downhill. It just seems incredibly arrogant on the creator's part. Oh, as long as it doesn't mean 'darker and edgier for the sake of it'. Basically, don't do anything like the Brutal Mario intro: www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AcxOuZ5KfE&feature=relatedAlso, as long as they don't quite make the final boss this style I'd be fine with more storyline: www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKdFTuHKBwQ(the battle itself is okay, but the music/graphics seem like they're from some generic RPG). Really though, onto the 'epic' point. I think you've got it slightly mixed up from what I mean. Basically, I want Mario games to stay MARIO games. I don't want Final Fantasy/Dragon Quest/whatever with Mario characters as far as a storyline goes. I don't want a linear game where things are reduced to cut scenes and quick time events, and I don't want stuff like 'evil being driven mad by love destroys reality', because it's not Mario. Then again, this is where my fanboy attitude annoys many Mario fans, because I tend to like a game based equal parts on gameplay and how close it stands to the original series in style. It's why I don't like Donkey Kong Jungle Beat, why I don't like people making Mario fan games which feel nothing like Mario games, why I don't like GBA Mario Golf games, because they're generic and not really exploiting the Mario series universe to its full potential. It's also why my preferred RPG series is pretty much the Mario and Luigi series (despite some complaints about Partners in Time), because it's closest to being a Mario series themed RPG with all the familiar elements, world, style, etc. I like Paper Mario as well (at least, the ones which are more like RPGs), and I like Super Mario RPG, but I feel that while they're often good games, they often feel more like a generic RPG with Mario characters added (especially Mario RPG, which feels like Final Fantasy with Mario characters here and there). The WarioWare series already has a small Japanese feeling, yet it doesn't "kill" everything and doesn't base the series on a particular culture. Except the WarioWare series is also pretty much nil in terms of feeling Japanese. True, more than the main Mario series, but I honestly think from a practical perspective, Mario not being so 'Japanese' is what makes it sell so well in all regions. It's true. Many people HATE the Japanese 'quirkyness' and 'cuteness' in some games, and many there HATE the American 'machoness' of our video games. Sure, geeks don't, but geeks don't pay bills to the same degree as targeting the mainstream does. Nintendo knows this, and keeps a tight leash on any series being too region specific. Also remember, any entertainment that's ever been targeted to geeks/nerds, despite online popularity has failed. Keep that in mind. They make a tiny, almost non existant percentage of your possible sales, and targeting them is the kiss of death for movies, TV shows and video games. |
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Post by Koopalmier on Nov 20, 2010 16:04:33 GMT -5
I understood that, but I wanted to know if they said Cranky was DK's father or grandfather. Oh, well, I may as well ask Nintendo about this.
While I agree about SMG's story, I liked SMS'. There actually was a plot, which was actually advancing.
I partially agree, but I like the idea of Mario RPGs having a dark, serious story. You have the usual Mario characters and universe being thrown into something completely different, and I like this mix.
That's what I'm saying. The WarioWare series only feels a little bit Japanese, it's almost null. Yet it's still there. I'd like to see the same thing applied to the Mario series, that's all.
Super Paper Mario was received very well in France. It didn't fail at all. And apparently no American review gave it less than a 7/10.
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Post by cheat-master30 on Nov 20, 2010 16:44:31 GMT -5
For geek related stuff... sales, not review scores. Okay, Super Paper Mario did fairly well, but every other game or what not made to appeal to the internet has usually sold under a million (and most such TV shows last about a season).
They did say the answer, I just can't find the original quote because Google won't search Rare's site and DK Vine's forum is apparently not searchable in Google.
Most of my criticisms are towards games which aren't very Mario at all, not them being 'too dark'. Remember, I'm not generally criticising Super Paper Mario for being dark as much as criticising it for for often not being very Mario like (bar the humour and chapter 3, many of the chapters like chapter 1, 2, 5, etc could have honestly been in any RPG).
As for Mario Sunshine. Keep in mind Mario wise, it kinda failed in terms of sales. About 5 million is okay, but compared to the 20 odd million certain other Mario games sold, there's no good reason for Nintendo to go down that route bar vanity. What doesn't greatly sell won't get sequels. Critical reception to all companies is basically irrelevant. Fan opinion is basically irrelevant.
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Post by Koopalmier on Nov 20, 2010 17:35:36 GMT -5
So, the only way that'd allow the continuity to make sense would be that Mario was an adolescent at the time of Donkey Kong Game Boy, and same goes for DK Jr. And now they're in their 20's / 30's. Nintendo really needs to fix the problem with Mario's age.
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Post by cheat-master30 on Nov 20, 2010 17:55:56 GMT -5
Or basically, Mushroom Kingdom = no one ages, whether Donkey Kong is set = apes and people age. Much simpler. Or replace 'no one ages' with 'ages much slower'.
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Post by Koopalmier on Nov 20, 2010 18:19:23 GMT -5
Is there any evidence that Mushroom Kingdom species age at the same rate as their earthly counterparts? I can't really think of any character that had a defined birth and death date, or even age. At the time of Super Mario Galaxy, I thought, based on her comments about returning to her home planet once every century, that Rosalina had somehow become immortal. Now that I think about it again, though, there's no particular reason that her natural lifespan shouldn't span multiple centuries. If that's the case, it's not that far-fetched to think that Donkey Kong's species just has a much shorter lifespan than Mario's. Earth gorillas only have a lifespan of 30–50 years anyway, and DK/Cranky might have already been pretty old by the time of Donkey Kong. (Even a relatively old gorilla is, I'd assume, still a threat to an average human, although I don't claim to be an expert on aged simians) Well... And it's plain ridiculous to think that people in Mario's world don't age the same as on Earth. This is a cartoon-like series. Everyone ages like humans, and everything is based on our planet. Even Goombella highlights that in PM2 by saying "Don't smaller beings have a shorter lifespan ? ... Bah, it doesn't matter." while talking about the Puni Elder. And, Kongs are closer to humans than to monkeys, for the sole reason they can talk. |
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Post by EpicGyllynn on Nov 20, 2010 19:55:19 GMT -5
Add more Epic Story and Action sequences to the platformers. But do it in a way that's not cheesey.. *cough*Sonic*cough*
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Post by Clive Koopa on Nov 27, 2010 15:55:02 GMT -5
More games with the Koopalings in and not letting Junior overshadow them. I would also like to see them as playable characters.
I would also like to see more games (not sports games, platform or rpg games) where Koopas play a larger role and are playable characters.
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Post by SMBBQ on Nov 27, 2010 16:15:14 GMT -5
That'd be pretty cool, though I don't see it happening in the platformers. RPGs though, I'd love a chapter revolving around being able to play as another character/species, sorta like in Mother 3.
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Post by EpicGyllynn on Nov 27, 2010 16:42:12 GMT -5
Not for Platformers, but a Chapter in Paper Mario 3DS would be cool.
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Post by Le Mario Bro on Nov 27, 2010 18:36:22 GMT -5
Play each chapter as a different Character.
They sorta did that with SPM but this takes it one step further with the fact that you can't switch back and forth between them.
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Post by SMBBQ on Nov 27, 2010 18:39:52 GMT -5
That's even better! You start out with Mario, and in each chapter, you play as a different character, seeing the same events from their perspective and the like.
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Post by Le Mario Bro on Nov 27, 2010 18:46:19 GMT -5
...I kinda meant that the next character keeps going where the last one left off, but a more novelish plotline like that sounds quite Globin!
I like it!
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