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Post by cheat-master30 on Aug 29, 2010 19:54:58 GMT -5
Is that, for all that's true of how brilliant the characters are, don't you think the fanbase takes it slightly too far?
Because frankly, they're good characters, but they honestly shouldn't be in all Mario games. Really, I think the fanbase in general forgets that for all extents and purposes, they're seven characters, which while having interesting personalities usually fight the exact same, and crowd out all other possible bosses and villains.
No really, you basically need the whole set of them to make them effective characters, and due to the amount of worlds in a standard Mario game, that kinda leaves hardly any room for non Koopaling opponents for Mario to fight. Indeed, I think that's why they were basically ignored for a whole generation or two, because they'd have pretty much made up all the bosses in any game they were in, and while seven basically identical fights were good in the NES days, they would probably be rather repetitive now.
But where was I... yeah, I think the fans want them in way too many games to be honest. I don't prefer Bowser Jr, and would be perfectly happy with him gone from the series forever, but would I really have wanted them in Super Princess Peach instead of the seven or so completely different battles we got? And when you hear stuff like 'the Koopalings should have replaced the bosses in the Mario Galaxy games', you know it's kinda nostalgia taken to the extreme.
Or maybe it's too many hacks and fan games I've played talking. There's only so often you want to fight the Koopalings before wanting to literally tear Iggy apart in anger.
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Post by Vent on Aug 29, 2010 22:23:23 GMT -5
The problem is that the fans like the Koopalings not for what they are, but for how they imagine them to be.
To date, they've only appeared in the following games:
-Super Mario 3 -Super Mario World -Yoshi's Safari -Mario & Luigi -New Super Mario Bros. Wii -Various assorted licensed edutainment titles
Of those, SMB3, SMW and M&L had them as generic clone bosses, and only in NSMBWii did they show any shred of personality (mainly though their voices).
Don't get me wrong, I love the Koopalings too, but the above evidence makes them out to be pretty dull characters outside of their visual designs. Therefore, the fans invented their own perception of what they're like (most of which seem to just copy from the SMB3 cartoon) and hype them up as something far more than they really are.
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Post by PDoogan on Aug 30, 2010 9:32:15 GMT -5
I agree about not having them in every single game, but there are some games which they would have fit in nicely. The best example would probably be NSMB. Instead of fighting Bowser Jr. 8 times, the koopalings would have made things a lot more redundant. The first galaxy was another example there were several bosses that you had to fight twice with nearly the exact same circumstances, would it have killed them to just use the koopalings instead? The battles do have to be identical, each kid could have different attacks, or maybe use a machine...
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Post by cheat-master30 on Aug 30, 2010 10:09:35 GMT -5
I'm not saying they shouldn't be in some, but I think they shouldn't be the only bosses in a game. If they were in a Galaxy game, I say one of each non Koopaling boss and one of each Koopaling would be a good distribution for bosses. And in the original NSMB, I think it'd have been better if they were the replacement TOWER, not castle bosses. You know, instead of about 10 Bowser Jr fights, you'd have the Koopalings, Reznor, Boom Boom, Kamek AND Bowser Jr as the mini bosses, and the normal bosses (Bowser, that Pokey, Cheepskipper, Mega Goomba, Petey, Monty Mole, Lakithunder, Dry Bowser, Bowser) as the world bosses, with the Koopalings and Jr joining Bowser in the final battle.
For NSMB Wii, I thought the Koopalings were just too overused. Fighting them once is cool, but twice? Why not cut out the tower fights with them and replace them with seven new, interesting bosses for the mini boss fights? They did perfectly well in the castles, the forts should have had individual to each world monsters for bosses. And Bowser Jr? Remove his ugly face from two of his battles, you could easily give the machines to some different villains.
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Post by Vent on Aug 30, 2010 11:59:39 GMT -5
Er, you mean less redundant, right?
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Post by Meta Black Yoshi on Aug 30, 2010 14:37:03 GMT -5
You mean they don't have to be identical, right?
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Post by PDoogan on Aug 30, 2010 15:24:44 GMT -5
Er, you mean less redundant, right? Huh? Oh yeah. Sorry. You mean they don't have to be identical, right? *facepalm* Wow, I'm just not doing well today am I?
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Post by EpicGyllynn on Aug 30, 2010 15:27:49 GMT -5
I would rather have them than Bowser Jr. I think that they would make good bosses for a 3D Mario game, like, Super Mario <insert Theme here>. Let each world have a cool Sub-boss, make the Koopalings the main boss of all, with the exception of W8, and, maybe include them, in the same order they appear in NSMBWii, as Seven Sub-bosses in Bowser's Castle(it would be interesting to see an incredibly large final level, spanning the different parts of the castle, almost like a World of it's own). That would be awesome!
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Post by Clive Koopa on Nov 27, 2010 16:06:49 GMT -5
I do wish the koopalings had bigger roles like Junior in some of the recent games. I'm sick of Junior getting all the limelight. Even in NSMBW, Junior acted differently to the others. Like for example, the way he appears in only a few worlds instead of there being 9 actual worlds (10 being secret) with Junior being boss of a random world number.
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Post by EpicGyllynn on Nov 27, 2010 19:34:38 GMT -5
Junior is just nowhere NEAR as cool as the others! He should be a Sub-boss for each Tower, with a Koopaling being the final Boss. But I still would like to see a Willey Castle-esque Bowser's Castle, being the size of 8 Normal Missions with the Koopaling being the first Seven Sub-bosses, with the final battle against Bowser himself! Now THAT would be epic!
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Post by Koopalmier on Nov 28, 2010 5:08:32 GMT -5
I say, Bowser Jr. should appear as Shadow Mario for most of the time. Only that would already make him better.
As for the Koopalings... well, they may have a personality, but we didn't see any of it. They should appear in a Mario RPG with actual dialogue. But... isn't seven characters a bit too much for the Mario standard ?
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Post by Clive Koopa on Nov 28, 2010 8:25:11 GMT -5
As for the Koopalings... well, they may have a personality, but we didn't see any of it. They should appear in a Mario RPG with actual dialogue. But... isn't seven characters a bit too much for the Mario standard ? Maybe so but still that would be a great idea. This is exactly what I want to see; the koopalings in an RPG with huge roles each with actual dialogue.
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Post by Le Mario Bro on Nov 28, 2010 11:01:28 GMT -5
Paper Mario: 3DS 2... The Koopalings have gone AWOL from Bowser for not making enough appearances in recent games, so they've stolen the Great...Object...Type...Thing... broke it into seven pieces, and hid away in seven different countries.
It's now Mario's duty to bring those Seven pieces back together since it's the only way to save the world from... something. I dunno.
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Post by Koopalmier on Nov 28, 2010 11:29:23 GMT -5
From the Koopalings getting their own series and eventually becoming Nintendo's mascots.
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Post by kingkoopa on Nov 29, 2010 19:05:15 GMT -5
Koopalings have personality, it just hasn't been shown out of the cartoons and American made products.
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Post by Sarisa on Nov 30, 2010 18:38:49 GMT -5
Instead of trying to develop all seven in one game, which would require making them the main villains of an entire RPG or making an RPG devoted to them (very unlikely), what about bringing in just a few in an upcoming RPG? Say, Iggy as a mad scientist midgame villain, Ludwig as the guardian of the last whatsit, and Larry as a minor boss directly before the Bowser fight. Then those three could get some proper development, and another game could feature other Koopalings.
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Post by EpicGyllynn on Nov 30, 2010 20:13:57 GMT -5
Idk, I like the idea of JUST focusing on a few, but I believe the others should make one time appearances, whil Ludwig, Iggy(My Favorite), and Larry could be recurring characters throughout the game, giving them some nice character development.
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Post by PDoogan on Nov 30, 2010 21:53:37 GMT -5
An RPG would be nice. But even though the the koopalings all have different personalities, they are still similar in other ways. Mario RPGs tend to have colorful characters of all shapes and size, and I think the the prospect of fighting "yet another koopa kid" in ever chapter would wear thin after a while...
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Post by Sarisa on Dec 1, 2010 2:49:13 GMT -5
Exactly, which is why I came up with the idea of only featuring a few, so there are plenty of other characters in between Koopaling fights. And they could be better balanced than my proposal: I pulled three with personalities and hooks for interesting battles, but Morton and Roy need their screen time too. (I can't find anything interesting about Morton. I'm sorry.)
I like the idea of referencing the others in cameos, if only to establish that they're working on another scheme that Luigi is busy foiling.
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