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Post by Artemendo on Aug 19, 2010 12:14:22 GMT -5
Have you got some ideas for some mechanic or interesting twist on the common gameplay formula that you would like to see in Mario games? I'm not talking about "a winged Yoshi that spits electrified lasers would be awesome", but rather stuff that would actually alter the way the game is played.
As examples, here are my ideas for Mario RPG boss battles:
-In a Paper Mario game, a boss that literally has no attacks, but rather a container of 100 items and the Double Dip badge. Each turn, he uses up two of his items (the list/grid is always shown to provide a strategy element) - most of them are attack, but some also refill HP and even FP (for when his FP inevitably runs out from using Double Dip so much.) It would be a challenge since items have a constant damage, impossible to dodge, making it not a skill-based "who superguards best wins" battle, but rather something more tactical.
-In a Paper Mario game, half of the party battling against the other half of the party, without Mario involved. Any battle without Mario involved would count.
-A dungeon being a boss. That is, the point of the dungeon is going around and destroying vital parts of it in mini-boss battles, culminating in the boss battle where the boss's HP is determined by the amount of destruction.
-Again an item thing, but this time more contrived - the boss can only be hurt with items. Normal attacks release coins instead, which must be gathered to BUY those items in-battle. Completely different from the usual formula, but you have to admit it would be fun in a game.
-A boss that can only be hurt by one of the brothers in a Mario&Luigi game. The other one has to take care of the boss's summoned henchmen instead.
-A cryptographic boss. He has no HP, but has to be dealt exact amounts of damage to obtain/decipher a message. The exact amounts are given as riddles during the battle. Would only work in Paper Mario, where exact attacks are possible.
So, this are the types of gameplay-changing elements I mean. Do you have any for the platformers? Sports games? More RPG stuff? Please share!
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Post by SMBBQ on Aug 19, 2010 12:24:02 GMT -5
I don't know if this counts, but I'd love to see a level like Low-G Labyrinth from DKC3. It would've worked best in SMG/SMG2. For those that don't know, it would mean the gravity would be changed so that Mario's jumps would be slower, as well as all the enemies.
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Post by Artemendo on Aug 19, 2010 12:25:57 GMT -5
Ah, we already had slower jumps on the Moon in PM:TTYD, but there it was just an annoying way to make you fight ALL of those darn Moon Clefts. I agree, done well this would have been a great platformer level, since it allows for greater maneuvering in the air.
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Post by cheat-master30 on Aug 19, 2010 12:36:25 GMT -5
So basically, the gameplay of every non Mario series RPG ever created?
TV Tropes calls this 'Battleship Raid' I think. It's an interesting boss battle idea, and Mario Galaxy 1 had something similar in Mecha Bowser. But on a larger scale, this would be interesting.
Clever, kind of.
How are exact attacks possible? As far as I know, unless he had some kind of clever defense system, your attacks would do more than exact damage.
But it's an interesting idea.
So a bit like Alpha Kretin? His forcefields work basically like this, albeit on a far smaller scale.
The low G one exists, it's called the Space Zone in Mario Land 2.
My personal idea? A level like the Perfect Run/Ultimate Test in Galaxy 2 in a Mario Kart game. Not playable well in multiplayer, but it'd be interesting seeing a Mario Kart track with dynamically done music based on where you are, and different scenery based on what part of the track you're on.
I'd trade Rainbow Road for it.
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Post by Artemendo on Aug 19, 2010 12:43:40 GMT -5
Well, not many RPGs have bosses that use items, much less items only, and not being able to dodge WOULD be something different in a Paper Mario game.
Exact attacks - that would require switching out partners. I was thinking along the lines of "Do 16 damage in three turns" instead of "Do 7 damage in one turn". It should all be possible. And if you overshoot, you just get a penalty hit and can try again.
Alpha Kretin's Mario/Luigi-only phases are too short. I want a whole boss battle built up on that.
Space Zone, haha, forgot that one.
That would have to be a pretty big track. Also, doesn't Koopa Cape already adjust music B-K style based on where you are?
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Post by cheat-master30 on Aug 19, 2010 12:46:52 GMT -5
I'm not sure if Koopa Cape adjusts the music, I should check that. As for the track length, well, we need longer Mario Kart tracks. More like Mario Kart 64, less like Double Dash.
The other ideas are cool. We already had a dodging only battle with Shrowser in Partners in Time, something like what you suggest could be cool.
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Post by Artemendo on Aug 19, 2010 12:51:27 GMT -5
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Post by PDoogan on Aug 19, 2010 13:25:54 GMT -5
-A dungeon being a boss. That is, the point of the dungeon is going around and destroying vital parts of it in mini-boss battles, culminating in the boss battle where the boss's HP is determined by the amount of destruction. Kirby Superstar did something like this with the Metanightmare level |
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Post by Artemendo on Aug 19, 2010 13:32:52 GMT -5
I know, it's not exactly super-original, but I would have loved to see a dungeon inside a big living being made this way. You know, kill the organs first, then the brain, or something. Why wasn't this in BiS? They missed out on a big part of the inside-someone's-body aspect.
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Post by SMBBQ on Aug 19, 2010 14:39:54 GMT -5
Sort of like an awesomer version of Dungeon Man in EarthBound?
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Post by EpicGyllynn on Aug 23, 2010 0:29:22 GMT -5
1)Most Levels are entirely Open-world, but some the Timed, Purple Coin, and 2.5D Missions have set paths. So you are free to explore as much as you like.
2)The game has Eight "Worlds", each of which includes a "Mini-HUB" city/town. All worlds are accesed from Toad Town(Mushroom Castle included), ranging from simply leaving the City Gate(Mushroom Plains), to taking a Warp Canon(Nimbus Kingdom).
3)At Toad Town(Or any other City) you can purchase Items, and Power-Ups. Items such as Shroom Shakes, and Koopa Shells(For riding) can be used Mid-level, while Power-Ups must be used prior to choosing your Mission. As for W8(Dark Land)'s HUB World could be a crashed Airship that Toads occupied to help Mario.
Well, what do you think?
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Post by SMBBQ on Aug 23, 2010 12:43:38 GMT -5
Ah, a mix of an RPG and platformer. I think that would be an interesting idea.
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Post by Artemendo on Aug 23, 2010 13:26:19 GMT -5
A Toad base in the middle of Dark Land, that sounds interesting! You know, the last levels/world of Mario games are always the most exciting, so why not a Mario game that just does away with the usual "grasslands" thing? Those are too easy and no one enjoys playing something that easy over and over. Or just replace it with a theme that's truly something different, maybe something that's normally used mid-game, but remade to be easier, like a factory or a swamp.
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Post by cheat-master30 on Aug 23, 2010 14:07:08 GMT -5
^You basically read my mind. I'd love a Mario game with no grassland themed world myself. Heck, how about a Mario Kart game with no boring 'real world like' race track areas and purely Mario themed levels? grrr that would be the best thing ever. No more Figure Eight Circuit, Luigi Circuit, Mario Raceway, etc, more Airship Fortress, Bowser's Castle and Waluigi Pinball.
And a factory or swamp world would be good. It's funny, Donkey Kong Country has at least one of each, but no mainstream Mario games has any such worlds...
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Post by Artemendo on Aug 23, 2010 14:11:57 GMT -5
I'm glad someone agrees! Yeah, Mario Kart sure would be better with only Mario stuff, buttttttt...
the sad truth is, it takes longer to make. All that "real world" stuff has textures easily bought in bulk from vendors, whereas Mario things require extra models and gimmicks and who knows what else. It's simply too much effort to make 16 completely all-new Mario-themed tracks.
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Post by cheat-master30 on Aug 23, 2010 14:15:43 GMT -5
Nintendo buys that stuff from other people for the basic tracks?
They never use anyone else's game engine outside of Brawl, I don't know why they'd use the work of others in general. Still, the sad truth is, Nintendo are lazy, right? Yeah, pretty much sums it up, although I don't see how making 'Toad's Factory' is easier than just rebranding it and calling it 'Wario's Factory' or 'WarioWare Factory'. Or why the time used to make Daisy Circuit can't be used to make a Mario 64 themed level, they must have spent as long on the decorations...
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Post by Artemendo on Aug 23, 2010 14:21:08 GMT -5
Nintendo uses other people's things like any other company. Do you know TOSE, the software development "ghost writer" company? They do TONS of stuff, it's a huge business, and almost never get credited. Super Princess Peach was made almost entirely by them.
And yes, textures - you think the EAD developers actually get out their cameras and go into the woods to shoot foliage/grass? That's all some random graphic designer's work. The Nintendo graphics people only do the noticeable things, like Mario's design etc.
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Post by cheat-master30 on Aug 23, 2010 14:32:24 GMT -5
Still don't see why they don't just make more Mario like tracks with the resources they have. I mean, let's say they want a haunted house track... just rip some textures from Luigi's Mansion or one of the Mario Galaxy ghost levels, and Bob's your uncle. It works for those Toad's Tool Mario 64 hackers.
Similarly, I'd have thought we'd have more Mario Galaxy and New Super Mario Bros Wii levels in recent games. Just reuse the textures from the games, and maybe literally just import whole objects in.
And why are so many retro tracks the bad choices? It can't be any harder to reuse the better ones, all your resources in both cases already exist, and you can entirely skip the level design bit. Why so many 'real world' like old Mario Kart 64 and Super Mario Kart tracks?
As for other games like platformers... well, there's no reason to reuse grass worlds for the first area all the time.
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Post by EpicGyllynn on Aug 23, 2010 14:46:39 GMT -5
I would like to retain a Grassland-themed World, while I think a swamp could be well implemented into a Forest World.
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Post by Artemendo on Aug 23, 2010 14:48:56 GMT -5
Maybe a grass world that's actually evil and a high-difficulty level? We've seen that in SMW hacks a lot, but imagine Nintendo doing it. Maybe with a sinister remix of some Mario main theme.
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