Toomai's Map of the Mushroom Universe

[Toomai]

To avoid flooding your screen, I won't post the image directly. Instead, click the link: Toomai's Map of the Mushroom Universe

This map is NOT trying to fit the geography of multiple games onto a coherent planet. Instad, it demonstrates how the Mushroom Universe is/may be connected to other universes around it, such as DK's. It is based off both fact (such as Flipside etc. being distinct from the rest of everything) and plausibility (such as Flipside and Flopside being on either side of some sort of hyperdimensional mirror).

[shadowgoomba]

A few things:
1. If Yoshi's world is considered a Sub-Universe, shouldn't Wario's be too?
2. Superflat World now seems to be retconned into the Mario universe thanks to the Game & Watch Gallery games.
3. Where would other transdimensional areas fit in, like the ones in Super Mario Sunshine and Galaxy, and Smithy's factory?
4. I don't want this to turn into a flame war, but shouldn't Conker get a small section as well? Regardless of content in Conker's Bad Fur Day (But not in Conker's Pocket Tales, I'll add), he's still indirectly tied to the Mario universe...or was, anyway.

[Toomai]

Nov 23, 2008 15:14:19 GMT -5 shadowgoomba said:

If Yoshi's world is considered a Sub-Universe, shouldn't Wario's be too?

Aw crap. I thought I might forget something. That'll get fixed sometime soon.

Superflat World now seems to be retconned into the Mario universe thanks to the Game & Watch Gallery games.

Hmm...possibly. That bring up the originals vs. remakes debate, however.

Where would other transdimensional areas fit in, like the ones in Super Mario Sunshine and Galaxy, and Smithy's factory?

Like how the Flipside worlds are in their own little "bubbles", any other transdimensional areas would have their own tiny section. I didn't put them on the map because A) I'm not really familiar with every game and B) their significance level is pretty low.

I don't want this to turn into a flame war, but shouldn't Conker get a small section as well? Regardless of content in Conker's Bad Fur Day (But not in Conker's Pocket Tales, I'll add), he's still indirectly tied to the Mario universe...or was, anyway.

I could fix that by replacing the Jiggy Universe with the Rare Multiverse. That seems like a good idea, actually.

[shadowgoomba]

In response to the Rare multiverse: Well...yes and no. Some of Rare's franchises/characters are never mentioned in any indirectly Mario-related games, such as Snake Rattle N' Roll and Cobra Triangle, so we don't know if it's tied to those too. Then there's the ones who make cameos in Rare's games (when they were still with Nintendo) like Sabreman, Jetpac, and Mr. Pants, so I don't know if they'll count. Rare hasn't really had a crossover to tie them all together like Nintendo has with Smash Bros.

Also, Mario interacts with Mr. Game & Watch in Game & Watch Gallery 4, so originals vs. remakes shouldn't be an issue.

[PDoogan]

Ok, here's my thoughts...

First, I really wouldn't consider Yoshi to be a sub-universe. The creatures on Yoshi's island are just native to that area and nowhere else. Kind of like how there are many unique animals in Australia.

DK has always been a mystery to me. Nearly all the animals shown are real, but the Mario crew and DK seem to have such ease passing between the two worlds. I tend to lean twords the DK world being on Earth, but when you add in the other Rare franchises, things get confusing.

Personally, considering what's happened between Rare and Nintendo, we should just dump the other Rare worlds altogether.

Here's a thought: Do you think that Smithy and those other robot monsters are on that part you labeled dark world?

[Toomai]

(Map updated today.)

There could be all manner of things in the "Dark World". My personal theory is that it's the Koopa homeland, where Bowser keeps his base of operations. Holes in the "mirror" would lead to "bleeding" between the two "halves" of the universe. Plus, it would explain the origin of Wario and Waluigi easily - if Wario didn't have his own sub-universe.

I agree it's fuzzy whether Yoshi gets a sub-universe or just a "continent" of the Mario universe. He definately has a seperate series that's partly distinct from the Mario universe, so the question is whether that's good enough.

[PDoogan]

Nov 24, 2008 11:42:12 GMT -5 Toomai said:

Plus, it would explain the origin of Wario and Waluigi easily - if Wario didn't have his own sub-universe.

Well, they could just moved there. No one's saying they came from Diamond City/the surrounding area.

That dark worlds could also explain other dark creatures. (i.e dark koopas, dark boos, dark lakitus, you get the idea)

[shadowgoomba]

Nov 24, 2008 11:27:42 GMT -5 PDoogan said:

DK has always been a mystery to me. Nearly all the animals shown are real

Um...what? Some of them maybe have vague ties to real animals, but hardly any of them are even close to realistic. Buzz? Kloak? Coco? Klaptrap? Kroctopus? Clambo? Any of the Kremlings? King K. Rool? Ghost Rope? Cat o' Nine Tails? Dumb Drum? Those owls that shoot fireballs at you in Donkey Kong Country 3? King Zing Sting and Queen B? Necky and Neck Sr? The Gnawty Beavers? Rattly the snake? Squitter the spider? Squawks and Quawks the parrots? Enguarde the swordfish? The list goes on and on. Even the Kongs themselves are way more personified than any monkeys I've ever seen on Earth, that's for sure.

[Toomai]

They're far closer to realistic than Goombas and Koopas. Closer to realistic than almost all other Nintendo universes, actually.

[shadowgoomba]

Kremlings are no more realistic than Koopas and Goombas are no less realistic than walking domino people. I don't see your point.

[SMBBQ]

Well, I recently started thinking that DK and Rare games are on one world, and Yoshi and Wario are also on Mushroom earth. Oh, and I always saw the Koopa's base of operations underground, sort of like a huge tunnel system with large atriums containig places like Dark Land.

[Toomai]

Nov 25, 2008 22:35:32 GMT -5 shadowgoomba said:

Kremlings are no more realistic than Koopas and Goombas are no less realistic than walking domino people. I don't see your point.

I'm saying that the main differences between creatures in the DK universe and the real world are sentience and googly eyes. Things in the Mario universe seem less well connected (body proportions are more heavily skewed, for example)

Nov 29, 2008 16:56:34 GMT -5 SMBBQ said:

Oh, and I always saw the Koopa's base of operations underground, sort of like a huge tunnel system with large atriums containig places like Dark Land.

That would seem resonable if you could never see the sky in such places.

[shadowgoomba]

Lets look at all of the things that Koopas and Kremlings share in common then:
Both are based off of real-world reptiles (Whether they be turtles or crocodiles)
Both have well-exaggerated facial expresions.
Both are unrealistically bouncy when jumped upon.
Both can jump extraordinarily high.
Both can be ridiculously huge (Bowser in SMS; K. Lumsy).
Both can turn into a skeleton after death (and ghosts as well for Kremlings [and evil tongues for Klaptraps ]).
Both feature some extremely unrealistic powers (Bouncy on a tail or causing shockwaves for Kremlings; spinning in a shell and sprouting wings and flying for Koopas, etc.).
Both walk upright (well, most Koopas do, anyway).
Both are capable of speech.
Both wear or can wear clothing.
Both can use weaponry (hammers, boomerangs, soccer balls, etc. for Koopas and bazookas, grenades, cutlasses, etc. for Kremlings).
Both share intelligence equaling or at times surpassing a human's.
Both have built huge societies rivaling man's.
Both are capable of using magic.
Both possess highly advanced technology that doesn't even exist yet (K. Rool's machine that turns bananas into gold or Bowser's Koopa Klown Kar).
Both sometimes dwell in environments that are clearly not that of earth (for example the Star Road or Fungi Forest).
Both show emotions.
Your point about Koopas having more skewed body proportions is irrelevant when creatures such as Klaptrap with its mouth bigger than its body (http://www.mariowiki.com/Klaptrap) and Kruncha with his arms that could easily reach the ground from standing upright (http://www.mariowiki.com/Kruncha) exist and are very little like crocodiles or anything realistic for that matter.
And then there's Rockrocs. Not sure where animated boulder with glowing eyes that is controlled via a magically floating barrel activated by touching it fits in, but it's certainly not realistic.
Now, I don't see real-world turtles or crocodiles doing any of the things listed above. I don't see how either one could possibly even be considered to be of this world after such inconsistencies. The ONLY thing that convinces people that Donkey Kong Country is realistic is its art style in SOME of the environments and SOME of its creatures, which are definitely a lot like Earth's. However, far too many things are just plain ridiculous if you really think about them.

[kingkoopa]

Maybe DK used to live Earth but then moved to ME (he lived in Earth probably in DK and DKJ)

[thedude3445]

Aww... I thought this was a map of the actual geography of the games...

I tend to lean towards DK being on the ME as dimensional crossing for such simple things as parties and soccer tournaments (Not even 1/10 as big as Mario & Sonic either) is insane.
But that makes the Rare games part of the Marioverse and complicates things to a very huge amount...

[shadowgoomba]

We could just consider all of the games after the split to be non-canon.

[kingkoopa]

The split of Nintendo and Rare???

[shadowgoomba]

Yes...

[kingkoopa]

Sorry I didn't know which split

[shadowgoomba]

You knew that Rare was making games for Microsoft though? :/
Why? Because Nintendo was nice?